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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2007 : 00:15:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
OK,
I guess I'll say it.
I seriously question the utility of having a essentially private argument in public. Whether either or both of you have some sort of exhibitionist feeling about this is beyond me.
Why the hell do you two want to air your dirty laundry here?
Humans, being morbidly curious critters, will tend to watch you flagelate yourselves into bloody pulps. Because we care? No. Because we can't not look. Like when traffic slows down to gawk at a serious accident. Not to help, to gawk at someone else's misery.
Enough is enough.
Drop it and move along. If you two want to finish your beef with one another, do it in private.
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I have no beef to finish. It was finished long ago and frankly I have been satisfied with the solution. I merely posted once here as an explanation which was left out of the OP. I did comment in the JREF forum in defense of another who was "being reported to the mods". I can't believe this same old crap is still being discussed here. But I certainly have no interest in it. So please don't assume there is in any form, a two way discussion going on here because there isn't.
Mycroft and Dude can whine all they want. I haven't bothered to read any of their posts following mine and I don't see any benefit in rehashing any of this nonsense again.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/24/2007 00:20:33 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 01:08:03 [Permalink]
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Mycroft and Dude can whine all they want. I haven't bothered to read any of their posts following mine and I don't see any benefit in rehashing any of this nonsense again.
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If you didn't read our posts, how do you know we're whining?
BUSTED!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 03:16:30 [Permalink]
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Mycroft wrote: | I predict you will. If not in this thread, you will find another opportunity to make a personal hit-n-run, bringing up these same issues but then refusing to discuss them to any resolution. |
I suggest you accept that some arguments will never end in any resolution. Just look at how Dude used this forum to once again bring up a disagreement he had with several people on this forum weeks ago. Just as that conflict will never be resolved (because both sides are thoroughly convinced they are right), this conflict with you and bgal will likely not be resolved. Get over it and move on rather than starting trouble here. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 05:24:04 [Permalink]
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marfknox said:
| Just look at how Dude used this forum to once again bring up a disagreement he had with several people on this forum weeks ago. |
Hey, it isn't my fault that some people are so blinded by their personal politics that they think it is ok to make bigoted statements and try to shield those statements by calling them opinion, and then resort to a string of logical fallacies to defend their bigoted statements, all the while being cheered on by the people here who are also to blinded by their own politics to examine the issue critically.
The inability (of some people here) to examine certain issues critically, because of political affiliations, is shocking to me.
The inability (of some people here) to distinguish between opinion and false assertion is also shocking to me.
And no, this will never go away. It will be brought up whenever the opportunity presents itself.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:50:19 [Permalink]
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Dude:
And no, this will never go away. It will be brought up whenever the opportunity presents itself. |
Oh goodie…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 10:20:44 [Permalink]
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Kil, you can always just admit your error. Beskeptigal never will, so fundamentalist is her political faith, but I have hope that you will eventually apply some critical thought to the problem.
I'm confident that you do know the difference between opinion and false assertion, and have the intellectual honesty to someday recognize your error in defending beskeptigal's bigoted statements as an opinion.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 10:43:01 [Permalink]
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Forgot to add:
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 11:28:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Dude:
And no, this will never go away. It will be brought up whenever the opportunity presents itself. |
Oh goodie…
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That fixed it, Kil.
Nice blog, Dude.
The Dude: Yeah, well. The Dude abides.
The Stranger: The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh. I sure hope he makes the finals. |
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 05/24/2007 11:30:07 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 11:42:48 [Permalink]
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Thanks
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 11:56:33 [Permalink]
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Dude:
Kil, you can always just admit your error. |
I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I've done it many times on these boards.
But I have to tell you, I just see it differently than you do. And I see no point in dredging this argument up over and over.
Dude:
… but I have hope that you will eventually apply some critical thought to the problem. |
I have done so, over and over, and have come to a different conclusion than you. I get that you can't understand how I could do that given your absolute certainty of being correct in the matter. And I'm sorry if it bugs you or if you think I have a blind spot in my critical thinking skills. I don't think I do.
Anyhow, this is a drag. We can go over this again and again, ad infinitum, and perhaps I might change my mind. But I doubt it…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 12:15:13 [Permalink]
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Kil said:
| I get that you can't understand how I could do that given your absolute certainty of being correct in the matter. |
No. I understand how you can reach the position you have. By turning a blind eye to logical fallacy and false assertion, because the position you are defending falls in line with your personal political biases. I get that part.
There is plenty of evidence out there that demonstrates how people leave critical thinking and logic behind when it comes to political views.
The part that shocks me is that you continue to defend the obvious fallacies of logic that beskeptigal used to defend her false assertion, and your refusal to apply an objective evaluation of what is and is not opinion to her original assertion.
As for my alleged "absolute certainty": Spare me. I reject your canard. I will persist in my position until you can answer my objections with something other than mindless repetition of your assertion that beskeptigal was merely "stating an opinion". If you can adequately answer my objections, then my position is subject to change. To bad the same can't be said of your position on this particular argument.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 16:58:42 [Permalink]
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Dude:
I will persist in my position until you can answer my objections with something other than mindless repetition of your assertion that beskeptigal was merely "stating an opinion". If you can adequately answer my objections, then my position is subject to change. To bad the same can't be said of your position on this particular argument. |
Well, there's the rub. I have been very specific about why I think she was offering an opinion. I didn't just state that over and over. I saw the qualifier. I pointed it out to you more then once both in the thread and in PM's. You know, the qualifier that you don't accept. And since you don't accept it, and since you don't know how I could, there is no way to satisfy you.
I call baloney on your accusation that my acceptance of the qualifier is because I am blinded by my politics. As I have said many times to you, and have not changed my position even a bit, I have no idea how many woo's are in the green party. And you can ask Bgal about the political debates we have had, just in case you missed them. I am no rubber stamp. So if your talking about me, show me. There are plenty of posts of mine on SFN to choose from. So back it up or back off.
Dude:
To bad the same can't be said of your position on this particular argument. |
I see. So is it just this argument that has me so mind numbingly stubborn that I am willfully not thinking critically? Or perhaps you think I care so much about how many woo's are in the green party that I will not relent. As though that was the most important subject we have ever discussed and I care so much about who is in the greens that I am blinded by my bias. Really, get a grip.
This debate is only about whether bgal qualified her statement. That is the bottom line. I think she did and you think she didn't. All the other stuff you have thrown at me is bullshit. Again, I am sorry I have forced you to speculate about my lack of critical thinking skills, or, at the very least, lacking in this case, but what can I do? I don't agree with you Dude. And to tell you the truth, I wish I did, ‘cause this is a drag.
I must say, it is interesting to be on the receiving end of your particular debating style.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 18:01:32 [Permalink]
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Dude wrote: Kil, you can always just admit your error. Beskeptigal never will, so fundamentalist is her political faith, but I have hope that you will eventually apply some critical thought to the problem.
I'm confident that you do know the difference between opinion and false assertion, and have the intellectual honesty to someday recognize your error in defending beskeptigal's bigoted statements as an opinion. |
Both Kil and I clearly explained the reasons why and how we saw the issue differently from you and disagreed with you. I personally think it is ridiculous to say we are both blinded by our political views. I have nothing invested in thinking Greens are woowoos. I actually rather like many aspects of the Green party. I've also disagreed with bgal on several points of discussion in the past. You can't seem to consider that maybe it is you who were blinded by your own assumptions and judgments about other people on this forum. Or maybe the rub is simply that you and myself and others on this forum really do just interpret what was said very differently and we are equal in our critical thinking about the matter. You are the only one here who is repeatedly attacking the character of people who disagree with you by insisting that the only reason they disagree is because they are blinded by biases. I totally agree with Kil that this is a drag and I really just wish you'd let it go. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/24/2007 18:01:49 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 18:08:52 [Permalink]
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Dave_W said:
| Except that I don't see any links to SFN on it |
Still exploring the functionality... just happy I can quasi-format text at this point. If I can add links, and when I figure it out, I'll definitely put one up.
Kil said:
| This debate is only about whether bgal qualified her statement. That is the bottom line. I think she did and you think she didn't. |
There is an objective test to determine if a statement is an opinion or an assertion of fact. I attempted to explain it, in detail, in that other thread. No matter how I parse her statement (with all of the attempts at qualification), the kindest characterization I can give it is a false assertion based on faulty induction.
There are rules to language. I didn't invent them. If we don't all agree to the same rules, then we end up speaking gibberish to one another.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Bringing personal arguments home
Topic Locked
