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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 05/28/2007 : 20:18:52 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---Have you read about the FISA laws; who put them in place? Who created precedent to for the executive branch to look at f b i files? Who sold the west coast ports? Who sold the east coast ports?
Cune you only need to look at history to see how the power is presented to the next official. The power is generally used by the opposite party of the one that garnered the power.
History does not lie.
Political parties do.
Read the Art of War and it will all become clear.
Delusional would be believing that the two parties do not work together. Want to talk about campaign finance laws? I bet you thought the laws protected you from, what, any ideas outside of the two parties?
Flip the coin and you get a diffrent side of the same coin.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 22:07:25 [Permalink]
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| Cune you only need to look at history to see how the power is presented to the next official. The power is generally used by the opposite party of the one that garnered the power. |
Examples please! You never give any specific info. People ask you why and how you have come to a conclusion and you merely say that you have studied it. A lot of people have studied American politics, and I don't know any who have come to the same conclusions as you! When pushed further you make the vague assertion above - so back it up with examples.
| Read the Art of War and it will all become clear. |
I have read the Art of War, and I think you are a crackpot. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 11:28:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I have been predicting hillary becoming president before she ran for Senator. |
And Pat Robertson thinks that if the Democrats actually nominate Hillary, it'll be the best thing for the Republican Party in a long time, pulling moderates and extremists together again and thus almost ensuring a Democratic loss in 2008. From the reactions I saw to her announcing her candidacy, I can't say that Pat's wrong on this one.
You also wrote:| Who created precedent to for the executive branch to look at f b i files? |
The FBI is a part of the executive branch of government. Why shouldn't they look at their own files? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 17:49:48 [Permalink]
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TPM has an update on this. They asked some experts about it:| The consensus amongst experts seems to be that the directive, aimed at establishing "continuity of government" after a major disaster, is not new nor does the policy seem to expand executive power. |
Read on and see what you think... |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 20:26:02 [Permalink]
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Marfknox, one example would be the f b i files that Clinton possessed inside the white house, this was illegal then, and is illegal now. The files can not be arbitrarily possessed and looked at; this is to protect privacy and from political blackmail. This acceptance during the Clinton administration has allowed the current administration to "spy" on all citizens.
Another would be the leasing of the deep waters port in California to China allowed by the Clinton administration. This circumstance had Republicans upset about American sovereignty, while the Democrats replied : Whats the big deal? During the current administrations allowing the leasing of east coast ports to another nation DuBai, the rolls of the parties in support and against were reversed. The conclusion was the same; American ports were controlled by outside nations.
The peoples in the two parties are played against one another. Looking at the big picture over periods of time without the benefit of "party loyalty" one sees a consistent move in the same direction by both of the major parties.
The ports thing was the most amazing. I had conversations with the same people during the different time frames. Their opinions of the situation were diametrically opposed depending on the man in office, despite the fact that the circumstances were the same.
The same republicans that hated Clinton for having the f b i files have no problems with Bush wiretapping and data mining. When I ask if Hillary had this power would it be O.K.; to a man they say no.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 01:15:19 [Permalink]
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"the f b i files that Clinton possessed inside the white house"
"Another would be the leasing of the deep waters port in California to China allowed by the Clinton administration"
Sources please. Are we to simply take your word for these? My Google search for these terms starts with a page of blogs I find less than reliable. Show me some reliable references. Otherwise I have to conclude this is made up $h!t. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/30/2007 01:19:28 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 03:44:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by beskeptigal
"the f b i files that Clinton possessed inside the white house"
"Another would be the leasing of the deep waters port in California to China allowed by the Clinton administration"
Sources please. Are we to simply take your word for these? My Google search for these terms starts with a page of blogs I find less than reliable. Show me some reliable references. Otherwise I have to conclude this is made up $h!t.
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I found this, BSG. It's from the Eagle Forum, and so almost certainly nothing more than anti-Clinton propaganda and vitriol from the right-wing noise machine. I'll keep digging, but I think that this is a red herring. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 04:07:47 [Permalink]
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Man....
Is it short memories, revisionism, a total lack of acknowledgement in the shit he was pulling, or (hopefully) you were just trying to get him to do a bit of work.
Here's one.
Interestingly enough, during the Dubai port deal, the Wall Street Journal showed a map of how many ports on the West Coast had China operating. Wish I could find that.
Peace
Joe
[Edited to fix link - Dave W.] |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:01:44 [Permalink]
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http://www-cgi.cnn.com/US/9606/23/fbi.files/
"A political tug of war continued Sunday over hundreds of FBI background files improperly obtained by the Clinton administration. "
"In a live interview on CNN's "Late Edition," Gore defended the White House's handling of the files and said a policy will soon be in place to prevent anyone there from having access to FBI materials."
"In a separate interview on CBS' Face The Nation, White House Chief of Staff Leon Panetta said it was "inexcusable" that White House personnel requested background files on people who worked in the Reagan and Bush administrations. But Panetta said there's no evidence that the files were misused."
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/14/hillary/
"Hillary Clinton Questioned About FBI Files"
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/june96/filegate_6-19.htm
http://tinyurl.com/299mae
CNN, PBS, and the Washignton Post, not very hard to find.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:07:04 [Permalink]
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The amusing thing is Dems defend Clinton and the GOP went after him. Now the DEMS are after Bush and the GOP is defending. This is a example of how one party begins a process and the other party expands it.
You do realize over the last 27 years we have had a Bush or Clinton in the White House with another Clinton soon to come.
They play patty cake whilst the population believes they are in opposition.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 09:54:52 [Permalink]
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Bush was a Vice President.
Carter was in office 27 years ago, though, wasn't he?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 10:26:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Bush was a Vice President. |
Right, I forgot about that.| Carter was in office 27 years ago, though, wasn't he? |
Only for the last... eight months of his presidency. If he only turned into a Clinton those last eight months, that'd be kind of coincidental, wouldn't it? Seriously, I figured if Jerome had meant to include Carter, he would have gotten a nice, round 30 year value instead of 27. But he's really probably just counting from election day in 1980 (2007 minus 1980 equals 27) instead of Bush's VP inauguration in 1981.
So, there's been one of two Bushes or the one Clinton at or near the top of the executive-branch administration for 26 years, four months and ten days. Maybe Jerome just rounded up.
Of course, Jerome's contention is that the parties are the same, so why isn't Carter counted as a Clinton, or Nixon counted as a Bush (etc on back through time)? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 11:15:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Gorgo
Bush was a Vice President. |
Right, I forgot about that. |
Well, he wasn't in the White House. The Veep lives at No. 1 Observatory Circle. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 11:49:42 [Permalink]
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| Well, they let him in there once in a while, so long as he didn't touch anything. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dictarorial powers for the Pres?
