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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:06:30 [Permalink]
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I propose a "Great Compromise," Jerome:
We will accept that you never evolved from apes. In return, you will accept that he rest of us did.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/15/2007 20:07:14 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:07:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
No. Because we observe evolutionary functions, lackwit. And they are pervasive throughout biology.
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You have already agreed that biological happening are evolutionary. Do you not realize you have only substituted a word.
Based on the agreed definition of evolution; evolution is a synonym of biological functions.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:11:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is amazing!
Basically; you are both saying, that evolution is true because we observe biological functions. |
Nice try, but the butterflies aren't being presented as evidence of evolution. They are being presented as an example of evolution. The hypothesis being tested in the study was not "evolution is real."| Can you not see that this is the same as any other all encompassing explanation for the variety of life. |
Oh, I can see that the argument you think people are making is vacuous, but that's why people aren't making that argument. You have constructed another strawman, adding to your growing army of them.| This is circular reasoning. |
Yes, it would be if people were doing it.| Giving yourselves an out by saying it would be falsifiable if, is nothing more than self deception. |
No, evolution is falsifiable through many means. The fact that no falsification has occured speaks to the correctness of the theory.
There are lots of ways that gravity could be falsified, too, Jerome, but they haven't happened, either. Are you now going to claim that the theory of gravity is as speculative as "Goddidit?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:13:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I propose a "Great Compromise," Jerome:
We will accept that you never evolved from apes. In return, you will accept that he rest of us did.
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Sure! Why not? It does not matter either way in the grand picture. I just enjoy thought. I am not trying to get you to a different conclusion. You have the right to think any way you choose. Talking to those that agree on most points is boring for me as it is little more than backslapping. I enjoy this as you all are reasonably civil and do put thought behind your beliefs.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:19:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
It is dumbfounding how one claiming intellectual superiority could claim that something is both fact and theory; in the same sentence no less.
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And the winky says you know exactly what's wrong with the statement you just typed, so you know that you're just trolling.
I think we've let you play long enough. There are plenty of serious creationists who'd take your place in no time, and discussions with them are actually more rewarding. No more trolling, Jerome. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:22:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Jerome, you aren't a very smart person, yet you persist in lecturing your intellectual superiors, which is virtually everyone. There is the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution. That life evolves is a fact, the theory of evolution explains that fact. So there's no circular reasoning here. Any alternative theory would still need to account for the fact that life evolves.
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It is dumbfounding how one claiming intellectual superiority could claim that something is both fact and theory; in the same sentence no less.
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Okay, very s-l-o-w-l-y...
Jerome, there is something called "gravity," something that operated perfectly well long before we had theories to explain it. It's part of what is technically known as "reality."
Then there are theories of gravity, which attempt to explain this reality. These theories may or may not be fully correct, but gravity doesn't care -- it just keeps chugging along, pulling stuff down from the sky.
Likewise, natural selection is part of this "reality" thing. It doesn't even know Darwin's (or Yahweh's) name, but it just keeps on working.
So, you see?: There can be both a phenomenon, and a human theory about that phenomenon.
(Folks, please bear with me. I only explain things for the benefit of the lurkers. I have no realistic hope that Jerome will absorb any of this. Yes, he's a troll, but in Chinese, the character for "troll" is also the character for "opportunity.")
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/15/2007 20:30:42 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:25:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
It is dumbfounding how one claiming intellectual superiority could claim that something is both fact and theory; in the same sentence no less.
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I would imagine that a great deal of things dumbfound you, Jerome. You are easily dumbfounded. It is only when you presume this is somehow everyone else's fault that it becomes a problem.
Evolution is both a fact and a theory, and it's not all that difficult for even one of your limited intellect to comprehend. It's the same as gravity. There is the fact of gravity (mass attracts mass), and there are theories of gravity, that is, there are attempts to explain why this is so. You see, Jerome, theories are attempts to explain why we observe what we do.
That life has evolved is an observed fact. The theory of evolution explains why we observe that fact, as any competing theory must also.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/15/2007 20:32:50 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:32:29 [Permalink]
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Let me get this straight:
Evolution is a fact.
Evolution is a theory.
Gravity is a fact.
Gravity is a theory.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:37:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Let me get this straight:
Evolution is a fact.
Evolution is a theory.
Gravity is a fact.
Gravity is a theory.
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No, you comprehended nothing that we just so carefully told you. Surrender your broom and wand. You fail and are hereby expelled from Hogwarts.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/15/2007 20:38:35 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:38:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Let me get this straight:
Evolution is a fact.
Evolution is a theory.
Gravity is a fact.
Gravity is a theory.
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No.
Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains that fact. Gravity is a fact. Theories of gravity attempt to explain that fact.
But I'm pretty sure you understand by this point, and so are playing the clown and avoiding admitting error so that you can play off your profound ignorance as nothing more than a playful act.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:40:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Let me get this straight:
Evolution is a fact.
Evolution is a theory.
Gravity is a fact.
Gravity is a theory.
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No.
Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains that fact. Gravity is a fact. Theories of gravity attempt to explain that fact.
But I'm pretty sure you understand by this point, and so are playing the clown and avoiding admitting error so that you can play off your profound ignorance as nothing more than a playful act.
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So, you are stating that a theory explains a fact?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:47:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, you are stating that a theory explains a fact?
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Yes. Or more precisely, a set of facts.
Did you even open the link I provided?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/15/2007 20:49:12 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:47:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
So, you are stating that a theory explains a fact? |
Wikipedia puts it well:Scientific theories are... overarching explanations of how nature works and why it exhibits certain characteristics. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:48:27 [Permalink]
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One more time: Imagine you live on a flat, Kansas farm. In the middle of one large field is a huge granite boulder that has been there since your ancestors pioneered the farm. For generations, everyone has had to plow around the boulder.
The boulder's granite is not at all like anything else on the farm, or in the region. It is what is called an "exotic."
There is the boulder. That it exists is indisputable.
You have a "theory" that the boulder was deposited by a glacier during the last Ice Age. Your theory may or may not be correct.
Two separate things: 1) The boulder, and 2) Your "boulder theory."
See, it's not that hard, Jerome.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/15/2007 20:54:46 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 22:03:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
One more time: Imagine you live on a flat, Kansas farm. In the middle of one large field is a huge granite boulder that has been there since your ancestors pioneered the farm. For generations, everyone has had to plow around the boulder.
The boulder's granite is not at all like anything else on the farm, or in the region. It is what is called an "exotic."
There is the boulder. That it exists is indisputable.
You have a "theory" that the boulder was deposited by a glacier during the last Ice Age. Your theory may or may not be correct.
Two separate things: 1) The boulder, and 2) Your "boulder theory."
See, it's not that hard, Jerome.
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You do realize he's just going to pull something blatantly vapid out to attempt not to understand the explaination, don't you? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Evolution caught in the act!
