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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 09:29:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
We have many thousands of years of data showing this. |
Cough it up.| I think you are either being intentionally obtuse or obscuring the facts for others. |
Right back atcha. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 09:31:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Anybody but me see that the bears are on the duckie and there's a fishie in front of it?
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Now that it is pointed out, YES!
Very cool, thanks.
Apophenia is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.
Lay back, and tell me what you see in the ink blot.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 09:36:39 [Permalink]
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Hack, Hack,Cough,Cough
Ice core data
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 10:04:35 [Permalink]
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Such a compressed graph doesn't allow us to measure the time correlation at all. Each point on the graph appears to represent over 1,600 years. How could you, from that data, come to the conclusion that CO2 follows warming?
Hey, reading the link to the seven-year-old article:The main significance of the new data lies in the high correlation between GTG concentrations and temperature variations over 420,000 years and through four glacial cycles. However, because of the difficulty in precisely dating the air and water (ice) samples, it is still unknown whether GTG concentration increases precede and cause temperature increases, or vice versa--or whether they increase synchronously. It's also unknown how much of the historical temperature changes have been due to GTGs, and how much has been due to orbital forcing, ie, increases in solar radiation, or perhaps long-term shifts in ocean circulation. So your own reference debunks your claim to "science fact," Jerome. Bravo. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 10:23:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Such a compressed graph doesn't allow us to measure the time correlation at all. Each point on the graph appears to represent over 1,600 years. How could you, from that data, come to the conclusion that CO2 follows warming?
Hey, reading the link to the seven-year-old article:The main significance of the new data lies in the high correlation between GTG concentrations and temperature variations over 420,000 years and through four glacial cycles. However, because of the difficulty in precisely dating the air and water (ice) samples, it is still unknown whether GTG concentration increases precede and cause temperature increases, or vice versa--or whether they increase synchronously. It's also unknown how much of the historical temperature changes have been due to GTGs, and how much has been due to orbital forcing, ie, increases in solar radiation, or perhaps long-term shifts in ocean circulation. So your own reference debunks your claim to "science fact," Jerome. Bravo.
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You are silly, of course the graph shows warming proceeding co2 increase.
Words can not hide real scientific data.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 10:34:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You are silly, of course the graph shows warming proceeding co2 increase. |
Where?| Words can not hide real scientific data. |
You're right, which is why your words are pointless. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 10:47:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You are silly, of course the graph shows warming proceeding co2 increase. |
Where?
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On the graph of data.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 11:46:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Anybody but me see that the bears are on the duckie and there's a fishie in front of it?
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Now that it is pointed out, YES!
Very cool, thanks.
Apophenia is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.
Lay back, and tell me what you see in the ink blot.
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I see the opening of that damnedable Gnarls Barkley "Crazy" video. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 14:09:01 [Permalink]
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Jerome your ice core data graph has about the last 500 years on one pixel, however it still shows that you are wrong. The other spikes on the graph are blue leading red as you said* however the last spike is red first. You will also notice that the CO2 level is by far at its highest on that last pixel.
*Now what I dont think you understand is this,
1)Normal cycle: Natural variations in orbit/sun activity cause temp increase, this causes the earth to release more CO2 into the atmosphere, which prolongs the natural heating cycle.
2)Human CO2: Humans release constant flow of CO2 into the atmosphere increasing the amount in the atmosphere by 30%+, this causes a temperature increase which then causes a natural CO2 release, compounded with the likely continuation of human CO2 release.
We may be in part of a natural cycle (though the data seems to suggest otherwise)however we will only compound the hardships we would normally see in the natural cycle high points. Though no civilization has experienced the consequences of this high of a CO2 concentration. I for one think there will be a hurricane which swallows itself resulting in a paradox. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 16:48:04 [Permalink]
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Bigpapasmurf said:
Humans release constant flow of CO2 into the atmosphere increasing the amount in the atmosphere by 30%+, this causes a temperature increase which then causes a natural CO2 release, compounded with the likely continuation of human CO2 release. |
Can you present any of the following?
Evidence that co2 would decrease by 30% if man did not exist.
Evidence that co2 increase causes temperature increase.
By the way why did temperatures in the past decrease after co2 highs?
I do know the theory; based on this theory temperature will increase forever and it completely discounts the increased water vapor which in turn increases cloud cover which in turn decreases temperature. I know, historical scientific facts and current reality do not matter when a religion is on the line.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 16:59:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Evidence that co2 increase causes temperature increase. |
Wow, Jerome, you're denying that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Not even President Bush will go that far anymore.| I do know the theory; based on this theory temperature will increase forever... |
That statement demonstrates that you don't know the theory.| ...and it completely discounts the increased water vapor which in turn increases cloud cover which in turn decreases temperature. |
No, that's part of current theory.| I know, historical scientific facts and current reality do not matter when a religion is on the line. |
Good that you admit your religious bais against the theory, Jerome. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:06:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Evidence that co2 increase causes temperature increase. |
Wow, Jerome, you're denying that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Not even President Bush will go that far anymore.| I do know the theory; based on this theory temperature will increase forever... |
That statement demonstrates that you don't know the theory.| ...and it completely discounts the increased water vapor which in turn increases cloud cover which in turn decreases temperature. |
No, that's part of current theory.| I know, historical scientific facts and current reality do not matter when a religion is on the line. |
Good that you admit your religious bais against the theory, Jerome.
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Great example of training others how to think.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:15:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Great example of training others how to think. |
By pointing out your obvious mistakes? Yes, it is a good example, thanks. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2007 : 04:49:09 [Permalink]
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| Thanks Dave, I will also point out that runaway temp increase is not impossible on earth, it happened to venus it could happen here. Clearly you are not interested in actual learning so I will remove myself from the conversation. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Stranded Polar Bears Due to Mans Warming?
