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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 14:58:39 [Permalink]
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moakley wrote: | I thought about replying to this. And thought about it, and thought about it, and thought about it. Ultimately I decided not to. |
Good thing too, 'cause you would have looked silly making a reply that contained essentially zero content! 
Ricky wrote:  |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/02/2007 14:59:26 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2007 : 15:54:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Me no care.
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Then why respond in the first place?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 17:15:38 [Permalink]
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Val wrote: Then why respond in the first place?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. |
I wasn't protesting anything. After all, I didn't say that I don't care and nobody else should either. I responded because I have bothered to think about the issue in the past, haven't formed an opinion one way or the other, and have since rested on apathy.
Guess I just figure it is sufficient to say that if he did exist, he was merely an ordinary man. I think the Christian religion has been formed primarily by those who wrote the books that ended up the New Testament, the people who decided which of those books were going to be the official Christian scripture, the people who made little changes to the scripture along the way, and many influential theologians and clergy. A historical Jesus, if he did ever exist, didn't actually do much with regard to the foundations of Christian beliefs and principles IMO.
Edited for clarity. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/02/2007 17:16:37 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2007 : 18:35:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by marfknox
Me no care.
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I thought about replying to this. And thought about it, and thought about it, and thought about it. Ultimately I decided not to.
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Liar.
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Shouldn't you have posted that here?  |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 04:50:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Val wrote: Then why respond in the first place?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. |
I wasn't protesting anything. After all, I didn't say that I don't care and nobody else should either. I responded because I have bothered to think about the issue in the past, haven't formed an opinion one way or the other, and have since rested on apathy.
Guess I just figure it is sufficient to say that if he did exist, he was merely an ordinary man. I think the Christian religion has been formed primarily by those who wrote the books that ended up the New Testament, the people who decided which of those books were going to be the official Christian scripture, the people who made little changes to the scripture along the way, and many influential theologians and clergy. A historical Jesus, if he did ever exist, didn't actually do much with regard to the foundations of Christian beliefs and principles IMO.
Edited for clarity.
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You know, Marf, I wish wish that I could get to where you are regarding this issue. I think I find this stuff so interesting because I live in a world steeped in Christianity. I'm surrounded by people who believe this stuff and call Him their personal Lord and Savior and, most importantly, say there's something wrong with ME because I don't believe.
If I could only adopt your attitude, I'd have more time for more worthwhile pursuits, like reading the last Harry Potter. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/03/2007 : 05:28:37 [Permalink]
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The Bible was written by writers (duh!), and writers, all of them including writers of non-fiction, tend to "gild the lily," as it were. Although I have read it through a couple of times, I am not anything like a Biblical scholar and have no ambitions of becoming one. But as you read through it, the gilding of the lily shows up a lot, in it's contradictions and elsewhere.
Of course, the Bible is not non-fiction, so the writers could put in anything they pleased, just like J.K. Rowling.
leoo, by all means, find the time to read #7. It's great!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 07:43:47 [Permalink]
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leoofno wrote: | I'm surrounded by people who believe this stuff and call Him their personal Lord and Savior and, most importantly, say there's something wrong with ME because I don't believe. |
Ew, I just couldn't stand that. I take it you have too many roots (job? family?) to get the heck outta there?
I got a friend over in NJ who runs a Humanist group there. She met a guy on the Internet and moved to NJ from Indiana to marry him. She's never regretted the decision and talks all the time about how she loves NJ (and trust me, people from NJ or nearabouts usually don't talk that way.) She also told me that living in Indiana as an atheist wasn't a problem (people just didn't normally talk about their beliefs) until 9-11, and suddenly she couldn't get away from the yammering, preachin' fundies. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/03/2007 07:44:16 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 07:50:56 [Permalink]
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| Just thought of another thing in response to leoofno: Freethinkers have a long history of being quietly respectful toward religion until religious groups cross the line and start swinging their self-righteous weight around. In this sense, I strongly suspect that politically ambitious fundamentalists in America are doing themselves in by making such a ruckus and trying to gain more political influence and power. They may grow in numbers and have some success in the beginning (indeed they already have), but they are none-the-less a minority, and the nature of their faith makes them seem like frightening morons to anyone who isn't one of them. "The New Atheists" are just the extreme wing of a growing movement against fundamentalists. In the long term, they can't win simply because they are so horribly wrong. Not that that will stop them from trying to make us miserable in the meantime. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/03/2007 07:51:29 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 14:20:36 [Permalink]
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| I find it interesting that this thread is at the end of its second page without seing Bill scott, the person whom I would had thought to be the strongest defender on this board for the existance of Jesus. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 21:58:23 [Permalink]
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| We have the guy's ENTIRE family tree, isn't that proof enough? |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2007 : 22:51:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
We have the guy's ENTIRE family tree, isn't that proof enough?
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Really? Do you mean the multiple conflicting genealogies of Jesus adopted father, Joseph, designed to make the claim that Jesus was of the house of David? Or is it the 1.God - 2.holy ghost - 3.Jesus family tree you refer to?
No, of course not. It does not prove anything. The Silmarillion gives us even better, consistent family trees. Does that make the elves of Tolkien real beings?
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2007 : 11:45:38 [Permalink]
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| Dunno, never read it |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2007 : 12:17:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
We have the guy's ENTIRE family tree, isn't that proof enough? |
There are 27 generations between David and Jesus. The Bible should list 134,217,728 names in David's generation if we had Jesus' entire family tree (neglecting incest for the moment). It's 40 generations between Abraham and Jesus, so 1,099,511,627,776 names would be needed.
Of course, there were only 10 generations between Noah and Abraham, so it's a little ridiculous to think that a trillion people could have even been born after the Flood and before Abraham (every single parent would have had to have had 16 kids).
Really, if everyone had two kids (or four kids per marriage), then the World's population would be the same as the number of ancestors of Jesus about two generations after David, when there may have been some 33 million people. That is, that's when everyone was an ancestor of Jesus.
Again, if we ignore incest. The Bible actually just lists two "family vines" for Jesus, and not two trees. Unless there's some part I haven't read that lists all eight of Jesus' greatgrandparents (or sexistly, his four greatgrandfathers), 16 greatgreatgrandparents, etc. There's a lot of it I haven't read, is that some of it? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2007 : 12:36:17 [Permalink]
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| I'll be honest after Jacob begat Judas I got bored and stopped reading. |
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Evidence for Jesus
