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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 03:42:54
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A pity. I rather like Edwards. This however, is over the line. TIPTON, Iowa (AP) - Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards said on Sunday that his universal health care proposal would require that Americans go to the doctor for preventive care.
"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care," he told a crowd sitting in lawn chairs in front of the Cedar County Courthouse. "If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."
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I agree that everyone should have affordable and even free health care, but it should be forced upon no one.
What, I wonder, would the penalties be if someone, myself for example, told the clinic that I did not feel like coming in this year and to fuck off? Would they rescind my health, what's left of it?
The bureaucracy clinging like a leech to it's shirt tails would be massive, and the pharmaceuticals would just love having another federal tit to suck. And as we all know too well, massive corruption would soon follow apace.
Edwards is a smart guy and I'm a bit taken aback that he would come up with something like this. And Jerome, before you start, this is not the same as mandatory education, which I fully support and wish that I had more of.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 03:53:58 [Permalink]
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He didn't say what the "or else" was. What I think he's saying is that if you want to be in the system, then you'll cooperate with the system. What would be wrong with that? Why make the system pay for you if you don't do what it says?
Should we get to the point where we cart off people who don't take care of themselves? Maybe you could explain why not, because I'm not coming up with very good reasons. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 04:36:09 [Permalink]
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I don't mean that sarcastically, I can't think of it. I mean, I don't think we need to spend a lot of time and money policing such things if we get to that point. We don't want shootouts trying to force people into doctor's offices. I personally don't think that we should exclude people because they've been brainwashed into some fierce individualistic thinking that prevents them from going to the doctor on a regular basis. I think the answer here is education.
I think we'd have to exert some amount of pressure on people to change, but how much, I don't know. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 05:26:44 [Permalink]
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Nobody should be forced to go to a doctor, but an annual check-up should be covered by a health care plan and people should be strongly encouraged to take advantage of it. That should be as far as it goes.
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:11:15 [Permalink]
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[sarcasm] This is needed because the proles do not have the ability to make the correct decisions for themselves. The elite; being superior humans, have the right and obligation to make decisions for the proles.
Evolution teaches us that there are humans that are further evolved and those human must care for those less evolved.[/sarcasm]
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:23:40 [Permalink]
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| Well, it isn't about the better ones taking care of the worse ones, although that is probably John Edward's view, and right-wingers like him. The ideal is to return to those that have been robbed that which is theirs. So, it would seem foolish to force them to take what is theirs because they've been brainwashed into believing in the kind of fierce false individualism that only works in John Wayne movies. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/03/2007 06:24:02 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:45:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Well, it isn't about the better ones taking care of the worse ones, although that is probably John Edward's view, and right-wingers like him. The ideal is to return to those that have been robbed that which is theirs. So, it would seem foolish to force them to take what is theirs because they've been brainwashed into believing in the kind of fierce false individualism that only works in John Wayne movies.
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I agree that those that produce more should help those that can not. My contention is the robbery is perpetrated by government, taking the labor of the workers and the poor and giving it to the rich. A sort of reverse Robin Hood. This is done by telling the workers the lie that government is helping the worker and the poor.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 06:53:04 [Permalink]
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I agree that those that produce more should help those that can not. My contention is the robbery is perpetrated by government, taking the labor of the workers and the poor and giving it to the rich. A sort of reverse Robin Hood. This is done by telling the workers the lie that government is helping the worker and the poor.
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I agree. The system is set up to tend to give to them that's got, and take away from them that don't got. Capitalism means one dollar, one vote. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 09/03/2007 06:55:32 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 07:01:42 [Permalink]
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I don't have a dog in this fight because, as a service-connected, disabled veteran, my health care is free anyway (and yes, over the years I have told them to fuck off a few times). However, it seems to me that it would be outrageous to force, under whatever threat, any adult to go to the doctor for no better reason than it's a law. That is protecting people from themselves, and not acceptable. But here is the sticky part: "Won't someone please think of the children?!"
Should there be a mandatory program to have the young'ns checked on a regular basis? Virtually everybody I know does this, as did I in my time, but there are a lot of holdouts such as those insane cults who believe it's all in the hands of the Great Mojo in the Sky and if prayer won't cut it, then that's it. Will o' God and all that guff.
What should be done about these, these otherwise honest, hard-working people? We occasionally read about a child dying from them trying to heal with prayer, don't we?
Edwards might have a pretty good idea there (he sez it's for 20 years), but I'm not sure he's thought it through.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Yojimbo99
New Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:16:21 [Permalink]
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When you are out there expecting your neighbor to pay for your health care (or anything for that matter) expect these kind of conquences. This often something I have told people when they start telling how wonderful health care for all will be. Well you can forsee some radical changes to fundamental freedoms.
If a free universal health care system is ever implentmented in the US I would wager that the people floating the bulk of the bill( you know all those evil rich bastards) are going to push for big lifestyle changes like mandatory doc visits, banning fats, outlawing smoking and things like sugar comsumption rations. Why should the folks pay for lil' Johny's skateboarding accidents, or Susy's need to snowboard and break bones. Are parents going to be held responsible cause they take their little porker kids to get another happy meal? Should the public be held financially accountable for poor lifestyle choices or the choices of their parents?
Forking over your rights for some pipe dream of universal health care is no better then giving them up for a fear of a suicides bomber.
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It's not so much wanting to die, but controlling that moment, choosing your own way. - GG Allin
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:37:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I don't have a dog in this fight because, as a service-connected, disabled veteran, my health care is free anyway (and yes, over the years I have told them to fuck off a few times). However, it seems to me that it would be outrageous to force, under whatever threat, any adult to go to the doctor for no better reason than it's a law. That is protecting people from themselves, and not acceptable. But here is the sticky part: "Won't someone please think of the children?!"
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First, thank you for your service.
I would state that your health care is not free. It is payment for your service. You earned it. This is vastly different than "free" health care because you are born.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:39:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Yojimbo99
When you are out there expecting your neighbor to pay for your health care (or anything for that matter) expect these kind of conquences. This often something I have told people when they start telling how wonderful health care for all will be. Well you can forsee some radical changes to fundamental freedoms.
If a free universal health care system is ever implentmented in the US I would wager that the people floating the bulk of the bill( you know all those evil rich bastards) are going to push for big lifestyle changes like mandatory doc visits, banning fats, outlawing smoking and things like sugar comsumption rations. Why should the folks pay for lil' Johny's skateboarding accidents, or Susy's need to snowboard and break bones. Are parents going to be held responsible cause they take their little porker kids to get another happy meal? Should the public be held financially accountable for poor lifestyle choices or the choices of their parents?
Forking over your rights for some pipe dream of universal health care is no better then giving them up for a fear of a suicides bomber.
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This is considered hitting the nail on the head!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:41:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Should there be a mandatory program to have the young'ns checked on a regular basis? Virtually everybody I know does this, as did I in my time, but there are a lot of holdouts such as those insane cults who believe it's all in the hands of the Great Mojo in the Sky and if prayer won't cut it, then that's it. Will o' God and all that guff.
What should be done about these, these otherwise honest, hard-working people? We occasionally read about a child dying from them trying to heal with prayer, don't we? |
Because children tend to lack the ability to make fully informed decisions about their own health care, failure of the parents to meet basic medical standards of care should be viewed as simple neglect and dealt with appropriately. Failures to comply with public health measures, such as vaccinations, should be handled with more severe censure - more severe than they are now, that's for sure. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:44:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by filthy
Should there be a mandatory program to have the young'ns checked on a regular basis? Virtually everybody I know does this, as did I in my time, but there are a lot of holdouts such as those insane cults who believe it's all in the hands of the Great Mojo in the Sky and if prayer won't cut it, then that's it. Will o' God and all that guff.
What should be done about these, these otherwise honest, hard-working people? We occasionally read about a child dying from them trying to heal with prayer, don't we? |
Because children tend to lack the ability to make fully informed decisions about their own health care, failure of the parents to meet basic medical standards of care should be viewed as simple neglect and dealt with appropriately. Failures to comply with public health measures, such as vaccinations, should be handled with more severe censure - more severe than they are now, that's for sure.
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Dave, there are currently no government mandated vaccinations that I am aware of. Do you know of any?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 09:51:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, there are currently no government mandated vaccinations that I am aware of. Do you know of any? |
In DC, kids who aren't up-to-date on their vaccinations don't get to go to public schools. There are news stories about it every year as the deadline approaches. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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John Edwards steps in shit.
