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 CSE sues "Extant Dodos" for refuting their videos!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2007 :  11:15:54  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a group out there that's taking creationist videos, and putting rebuttals within them.

Well, the Creation Science Evangelism people don't like that, and are threatening to sue the ExtantDodo people for copyright infringement. Problem?

As is pointed out in a Pharyngula blog post: The CSE people have on their own site, admitted that their stuff isn't copyrighted and that people are free to use it! The only thing they can even think of doing is to say that the ExtantDodo people aren't using the CSE stuff to spread the gospel, but even so, in this case, it's not the Dodos who are being stupid.

from CSE's site: http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=68
One outreach of Creation Science Evangelism is Dr. Kent Hovind's Creation Seminar, now given by three speakers (including Dr. Hovind) around the country and even around the world! The creation seminar, along with debates, public school presentations, and our children's ministry, Dinosaur Adventure Land are supplemented by our line of creation related materials, to help others gain a better understanding of the creation/evolution subject and to help them spread the word. (None of the materials produced by Creation Science Evangelism are copyrighted, so feel free to copy those and distribute them freely.) Our web site is another facet of our ministry, provided to help spread the truth into all the world.



No wonder Hovind got put in jail for tax evasion. Those people seem to have a real weak grasp of the law, as well as reality.

(I like the fact that I've been able to imply that the "law" and "reality" are seperate, here!)




>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2007 :  11:53:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
However, they are modifying the videos. Their web site doesn't say that someone can't do that (it also doesn't say someone can do that too). I wonder what the Fair Use laws or DMCA have to say about this?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2007 :  20:08:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If CSE haven't copyrighted the videos, they are public domain, and pretty much any use is allowable. What's "allowed" and isn't by the CSE site is moot, right?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2007 :  21:02:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Technically they are copyrighted. Any material is considered copyrighted as soon as it is created, the only reason to go through the bother of registering it is to more easily back up any legal proceedings. If I carelessly pick up my camera right now and take an out of focus shot of my pantleg, it's copyrighted. If I decide to type a hilariously rude limerick about any one of you here, it's copyrighted continuously as I hit keys.

BUT, I would presume that their statement on the web site makes it very clear that they have no intention of enforcing their copyright. Any sane judge (I believe there's a few left) would say that they have abrogated any right to prevent others from using it in any way, shape, or form.

So fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
Edited by - The Rat on 09/11/2007 21:04:34
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2007 :  19:08:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pandas Thumb reports that Hovind's ministry is making copyright claims against videos that contain none of their content. Also, the Bad Astronomer says, "Kent Hovind: creationist liar and evil, evil, evil."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2007 :  19:14:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Pandas Thumb reports that Hovind's ministry is making copyright claims against videos that contain none of their content.
Yeah, seen that bullshit stunt before. There's a loony lunar landing hoax site (okay, they're all loony), which tries to claim copyright over photos and film taken by Apollo astronauts.


Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2007 :  19:57:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Pandas Thumb reports that Hovind's ministry is making copyright claims against videos that contain none of their content. Also, the Bad Astronomer says, "Kent Hovind: creationist liar and evil, evil, evil."
I did a lot of browsing of Hovind-related material at You Tube yesterday. The vast majority of the videos posted there are blocked due to CSE's complaints. Users and posters are livid, using terms like "the Hovind crime family." At least two video posters (the Rational Response Squad and RabidApe) have been banned by You Tube in the fracas.

CSE has done themselves no public relations service by this censorship. But the Hovind crowd has always been a pack of criminal morons.

I hope the Electronic Frontier Foundation gets involved, and counter-sues big time, and that Federal prosecutors get involved and put the rest of these criminals in jail. This would finally stop CSE's abusive and illegal tactics.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/14/2007 20:02:14
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2007 :  21:09:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat

Originally posted by Dave W.

Pandas Thumb reports that Hovind's ministry is making copyright claims against videos that contain none of their content.
Yeah, seen that bullshit stunt before. There's a loony lunar landing hoax site (okay, they're all loony), which tries to claim copyright over photos and film taken by Apollo astronauts.
Nonono, CSE Ministries is, apparently, just filing bogus DMCA complaints with YouTube, targeting any video that points out Hovind's nuttiness. They're not actually claiming copyright, they're just lying by saying that someone's video is copyrighted by someone other than the person who posted it. And such claims are good enough for YouTube to take down videos and suspend memberships until they find out the truth, because the penalties for YouTube under the DMCA for not doing so are draconian.

Now, I would never endorse stooping to their levels (especially since some suggest it's a felony), but I can't help but wonder when some misguided anti-creationist will pull the same stunt on CSE Ministries' own website (not just YouTube).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2007 :  03:34:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to refresh everyone's memory, here's a part of the Wiki on Hovind.
In 1971 he graduated from East Peoria High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 until 1974, Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education (B.R.E.).[6] In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the unaccredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado, which no longer offers this program).[9]. Note: Teachers at public schools must have an accredited degree and a state teaching license, but this is not always required for private schools. Hovind has no recognized teaching credentials nor academic degrees from accredited universities in the subjects he taught.


Front view of the Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado taken on November 22, 2006.Hovind's casual usage of the Dr title, such as being listed in the phonebook as "Dr Hovind" and having a website Dr. Dino, has provoked some academics to closely look at how Hovind presents his education and credentials. [10] Dr. Barbara Forrest, a critic of intelligent design, wrote that Hovind's lack of academic training makes it impossible to engage him on a professional level.[11] Other critics of Hovind have charged that Patriot Bible University is a diploma mill, as it has unreasonably low graduation requirements, lack of sufficient faculty or educational standards, and a suspicious tuition scheme.[7] The school's current policies allow students to attain bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and even "Doctor of Ministry" degrees in months, rather than years, for as little as $25 per month. Currently Patriot offers a monthly fee, unlike most universities, which only charge per-credit fees.[12]

Patriot will not send copies of Hovind's doctoral dissertation except with his permission.[10] As a rule all accredited doctoral dissertations are published by the associated university and made available to the public, so that other students conducting research in similar areas may use the information in the dissertation as a reference [10]. Although one copy of the dissertation is on file at the National Center for Science Education (NCSE) the organization is not able to provide it on request because of copyright and distribution restrictions.[10]

Various criticisms have been made of his dissertation, including charges of incompleteness, low academic quality, poor writing, poor spelling, and poor grammatical style.[10][13] When questioned about his education and qualifications, Hovind has said that the arguments are ad hominem attacks.[9] Patriot Bible University has issued similar comments.[14]
A real ivory-tower intellectual, this one is.

It occured to me that while daddy Kent is in stir, sonny Eric yet roams free. It further occured that I didn't know much about him, so I ran a google. Hmph. I still don't know much about him. He seems to have a real talent for keeping his head down and even Wikipedia gives him no more than the briefist mention.

I did find a site that accused him of conspiring with Kent to hide assets from the IRS, but nothing seems to have come of it. Also he has taken up where Kent left off, running the ministry and lying to the public where and whenever possible.

This then, is the hand behind the YouTube attacks. Pretty clever, if you ask me. He accomplishs his purpose with small effort and little or no cash outlay. Simply make the threat and sit back and watch the paniced scurrying as the site's owners try to cover their asses against, well, not much of anything really.

Eric would seem to not only have inherited his father's ministery but at least a portion of his viciousness as well. He also seems to be somewhat smarter than than his sire, and at age 27 he has a long run ahead of him. It will be interesting to see if he expands CSE into something like Ham's creation whack-a-doo or is content to just plod along in the sludge of his daddy's footsteps.

I think keeping an eye on this goober will be worthwhile and perhaps even entertaining.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/15/2007 03:59:48
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2007 :  04:56:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by The Rat

Originally posted by Dave W.

Pandas Thumb reports that Hovind's ministry is making copyright claims against videos that contain none of their content.
Yeah, seen that bullshit stunt before. There's a loony lunar landing hoax site (okay, they're all loony), which tries to claim copyright over photos and film taken by Apollo astronauts.
Nonono, CSE Ministries is, apparently, just filing bogus DMCA complaints with YouTube, targeting any video that points out Hovind's nuttiness. They're not actually claiming copyright, they're just lying by saying that someone's video is copyrighted by someone other than the person who posted it. And such claims are good enough for YouTube to take down videos and suspend memberships until they find out the truth, because the penalties for YouTube under the DMCA for not doing so are draconian.

Now, I would never endorse stooping to their levels (especially since some suggest it's a felony), but I can't help but wonder when some misguided anti-creationist will pull the same stunt on CSE Ministries' own website (not just YouTube).
For what it's worth, RabidApe, one of those banned from You Tube, is specifically asking that people not respond by pulling a stunt in the Eric Hovind fashion. I think I agree. Reason can flourish in an open market of ideas; madness can't.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2007 :  04:58:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Eric Hovind.

Filthy, I suspect Eric Hovind will be ahead of his Daddy in another thing: He'll probably get his first felony conviction much earlier in life.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/15/2007 05:02:03
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2007 :  07:07:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Filthy, I suspect Eric Hovind will be ahead of his Daddy in another thing: He'll probably get his first felony conviction much earlier in life.
Flattop haircuts are not to be trusted in anyone other than teen-agers and the military. They are also acceptable in uniformed law enforcement personnel.

But I dunno. I suspect he's learned from the mistakes of Kent. I further suspect that he has a nice hate going for any and all that had a hand in getting his father busted, and by extension, all who have ridiculed them both. Now it only remains to see what he does about it and how, and to whom. The current incident might be the beginning.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2007 :  07:12:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hopefully the Squad and others that have been wronged by the CSE will file counter-claims, as is their right. When the lies are discovered in full by the courts, the CSE will be in a world of shit.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Albin
New Member

USA
1 Post

Posted - 12/06/2016 :  23:48:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Albin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

Hopefully the Squad and others that have been wronged by the CSE will file counter-claims, as is their right. When the lies are discovered in full by the courts, the CSE will be in a world of shit.


Whatever happened with this?

I say use the hydromax x50 for gains fast.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2016 :  20:28:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, Albin.

The last ExtantDodo video was posted eight years ago, talking about how their account had been suspended and then re-instated again. They also claimed that that video would be the first in a weekly series. The channel is still up, so YouTube didn't remove their content, but perhaps they got blocked from posting new videos.

In an earlier video, they claimed to have been interviewed by Dogma Free America regarding the CSE mess, but DFA's website is no more, and I don't know how far back their podcasts go on the iTunes store.

Kent Hovind, of course, went to jail for tax issues, and is now out again.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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