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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:07:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'm confused-- are you insulting me? About my knowledge of history? |
Not in the least. I was commenting on your statement of uncaring.
I rather disagree. Or perhaps better, I'd say that students have better things to do with their time and energy than know dates and trivia (which they can look up anyhow), and focus on larger questions and hone more important skills.
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The trivia is just that, the pertinent knowledge in contained in the aspect of knowing this information as trivia.
This is not a simple quiz taken at the end of class. This is a discovery of knowledge after years of learning. The ability to regurgitate is removed by the formate of the test for the vast majority. This test discovers the understanding on history contained within the test taker.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:29:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by furshur
Jerome said:
I got two wrong:
13) The struggle between President Andrew Johnson and the Radical Republicans was mainly over:
38) What kind of government is a junta? |
I'm sorry but this is perfect.
You got a great score on this test and yet you are not able to demonstrate even a modicum of critical thinking. You have demonstrated that you are gullible and completely unwilling to change your opinion when presented with clear evidence that you are wrong.
You are a poster boy for the antithesis of your argument. |
???
I do not understand at all what you are saying and the connections you are making. |
If you are smart enough to get a great score on the test then you should be smart enough to apply critical thinking.
Personally, I think it's more likely that you cheated or lied about your score, but if you really did do that well then why is it that you so often resort to fallacies and nonsense, and so rarely engage in reasoned conversation. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:35:39 [Permalink]
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Jerome, you really think that a multiple-choice test removes the "ability to regurgitate" trivia?
Really, Matt, the test doesn't test the ability to use proper reasoning and avoid common pitfalls to successful logic. Doing well on this "history and civics" test will be largely independent of doing well on an applied reasoning test. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:38:18 [Permalink]
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I got ~65% and truth be told I got lucky with that score. Oh well. A lot of the questions seemed pretty esoteric to me so I don't feel too bad about it.
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:41:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by dv82matt
If you are smart enough to get a great score on the test then you should be smart enough to apply critical thinking.
Personally, I think it's more likely that you cheated or lied about your score, but if you really did do that well then why is it that you so often resort to fallacies and nonsense, and so rarely engage in reasoned conversation.
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Great sportsmanship.
Do you think this test measures intelligence? It does not. Please read my above posts to discern the meaning of the test.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:45:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Do you think this test measures intelligence? |
Matt didn't suggest it did. One need not be highly intelligent to avoid fallacies and nonsense, or to engage in reasoned conversation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:46:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Really, Matt, the test doesn't test the ability to use proper reasoning and avoid common pitfalls to successful logic. Doing well on this "history and civics" test will be largely independent of doing well on an applied reasoning test. |
Oh I agree. It's entirely possible that Jerome did do as well as he says, it just strikes me as incongruous is all and given his track record I have no reason to trust his integrity. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 20:53:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The trivia is just that, the pertinent knowledge in contained in the aspect of knowing this information as trivia.
This is not a simple quiz taken at the end of class. This is a discovery of knowledge after years of learning. The ability to regurgitate is removed by the formate of the test for the vast majority. This test discovers the understanding on history contained within the test taker. |
I disagree completely. I'm not even sure I know what you're saying re "the ability to regurgitate" but I disagree with the rest. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 21:02:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by dv82matt
If you are smart enough to get a great score on the test then you should be smart enough to apply critical thinking.
Personally, I think it's more likely that you cheated or lied about your score, but if you really did do that well then why is it that you so often resort to fallacies and nonsense, and so rarely engage in reasoned conversation.
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Great sportsmanship.
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Says the guy with a mined quote in his signature.  |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 23:18:03 [Permalink]
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I do agree with those that have pointed out how much more important knowing concepts and principles of history and civics is than knowing the details of dates and names. I would like tests to cover concepts more than they cover details.
But I am going to qualify this. If someone doesn't know who Lincoln was, or know that the Civil War came after the War of 1812, then that person can't be said to know much about the pertinent history. The sequence and general dates of history are important. And the names and deeds of key individuals are important as well.
No, most people won't ever make much practical use of history in their daily work, but it provides, I think, a background that makes us better citizens. It also gives our lives rich context and thus more subjective meaning, IMO. (For instance, I shook the hands of at least two of the people mentioned in that test. This connects me with history in a personal way. It pains me when someone doesn't know who those people were, what they did, or when they lived.)
If we don't know where we've been, how can we know where we are, or where we're going?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/19/2007 23:19:25 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 20:19:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I do agree with those that have pointed out how much more important knowing concepts and principles of history and civics is than knowing the details of dates and names. I would like tests to cover concepts more than they cover details. |
Exactly the point I was making in referencing the questions as trivial.
| But I am going to qualify this. If someone doesn't know who Lincoln was, or know that the Civil War came after the War of 1812, then that person can't be said to know much about the pertinent history. The sequence and general dates of history are important. And the names and deeds of key individuals are important as well. |
Agreed, that is why the quiz is a window into the understanding of history, not a test of the ability to regurgitate facts.
| No, most people won't ever make much practical use of history in their daily work, but it provides, I think, a background that makes us better citizens. It also gives our lives rich context and thus more subjective meaning, IMO. |
By far the most REASONED reply in this entire thread.
| (For instance, I shook the hands of at least two of the people mentioned in that test. This connects me with history in a personal way. It pains me when someone doesn't know who those people were, what they did, or when they lived.) |
Which two?
Kennedy?
Reagan?
Very cool, no matter who!
If we don't know where we've been, how can we know where we are, or where we're going?
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Some do prefer bliss.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Schools Fail Again
