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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:30:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The point is; if you would think and reason prior to posting, that almost any headline could be construed as misleading if one cherry picks from the article.
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Oh, I'm quite aware of the point you were trying to make. By splitting hairs with Mooner's choice of words, you're attempting to excuse the dozens of times you've titled your threads with gross misrepresentations of the truth. You aren't a complicated individual, Jerome. Your intentions are as easy to read as a child's when eyeing a cookie jar.
And your attempt has failed.
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If you had it all figured out before I explained it; why were you arguing against the reverse of my initial statement?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:38:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If you had it all figured out before I explained it; why were you arguing against the reverse of my initial statement? |
Wow. I figured out what you were attempting to do. However I argued against your initial statement because it was wrong, which is why your attempt has failed.
Do you get it yet? Or do I need to speak more slowly?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/25/2007 19:38:40 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:44:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If you had it all figured out before I explained it; why were you arguing against the reverse of my initial statement? |
Wow. I figured out what you were attempting to do. However I argued against your initial statement because it was wrong, which is why your attempt has failed.
Do you get it yet? Or do I need to speak more slowly?
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Here is my initial statement:
| First off, I absolutely do not think the teacher should be fired or punished in any way. There should be exposer to ideas which make others uncomfortable in the college setting. |
You were arguing as if I had said the reverse. I implore you to read what you are responding to before posting. You are digging the hole deeper by the post.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 19:56:40 [Permalink]
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Cune understands what I'm trying to say. Ricky seems to get it just fine. Why are you the only one who seems to have so much trouble with simple comprehension, Jerome? And doesn't that tell you anything?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:07:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
You are trying to change the topic. Everyone up to this point was arguing over your criticism of the title, nothing else.
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Really:
| How did the teacher "denigrate" the students' religion? By not teaching that Adam and Eve were historical personages. So it's the same thing. |
This is an argument over as to the validity of the students "feeling denigrated".
My point is almost any headline could be argued as misleading. I am not arguing that this headline is misleading. HH, has said that he knew that was my point, yet he was arguing over the validity of the feelings of the students and the validity of the headline.
The point of my post was to show that claiming invalid headline does nothing more than create an argument over nothing with no point.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:27:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Can't American Evangelicals and otherwise religiously insane decide on one state in USA, take it over and leave the rest of the US population in peace? They can then leave the Union and become their own backward theocracy, and USA can reclaim it's place as a leading nation of the world.
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Some of the Dominionists want to do just that, in South Carolina. But, Mab, we settled this kid of secessionist issue almost a century and a half ago, when that same state succeeded, and the Civil War broke out. It's still our bloodiest war.
This time, we're encouraging them to move to Sweden.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:30:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
Jerome is not claiming HH is mocking him.
Jerome is claiming HH is a mockery. |
Then that is far more offensive.
Thank you for clarifying that I was taking it too easy on Jerome.| Having a hard time controlling the children when a superior intelligence twists their minds into knots, and exposes their inadequate minds? |
No, Jerome. It's not at all strange how you, marty, have the same IP as Jerome and showed up minutes after Jerome was banned to continue Jerome's attack. And look, nary a post from you since Jerome was un-banned. Bye-bye to you, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:33:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Boy, Oh, Boy.
Do you guys even read what I write prior to responding.
I said that the teachers should not be fired and that unconformable thoughts should be talked about in college. |
Good thing I wasn't arguing that point! (And too bad (sort of) that you can't reply)
| The two of you are arguing against a phantom of your own creation. |
No, you're simply arguing that this is the case. That doesn't make it so.
| The point is; if you would think and reason prior to posting, that almost any headline could be construed as misleading if one cherry picks from the article. |
True. The question is if that's the case here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:41:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
First off, I absolutely do not think the teacher should be fired or punished in any way. There should be exposer to ideas which make others uncomfortable in the college setting.
Having said that.
I have been maligned for misrepresenting my thread titles recently. I would like to point out this is a fact for this thread.
| Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired |
| Bitterman's Tuesday course was telecast to students in Osceola over the Iowa Communications Network. A few students in the Osceola classroom, he said, thought the lesson was "denigrating their religion." |
Again, I have no problem with the professor denigrating anyones religion; it is that the title belies the facts presented in the article.
Fair is fair.
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I think I made the title as accurate as I knew how, given the restraints of its length. I would have prefered giving the entire concept (including "... as history"), but there wasn't enough space. I first used "Creationism" instead of "Adam and Eve," but felt that, though defensible, was a bit less accurate. I assumed that the short version was the best I could do, and left the details for the post itself.
Sometimes, though that wasn't the case here, I will write a title that is deliberately provocative and even deceptive in literal terms, as a narrative hook, then let the post sort things out. But I don't do this in order to leave a false impression, only to get people to read the post.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 20:47:56 [Permalink]
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In re-reading things a few times, I can almost see Jerome's point. But it's really only if one takes a remarkably hard line regarding the English language. Jerome seems (?) to be arguing that since the professor in question wasn't forced to literally teach the Bible, then the headline is misleading. And in that strict sense, he's right. However, a broader (and more honest) reading of the language shows that the headline is correct. The professor opted to teach a Western Civ class using, in part, the Bible (a logical move), but because he didn't approach it literally, and because students were offended by this, he lost his job.
Yes, Mooner's headline is sensationalist. But it is not incorrect. Compare this to Jerome's thread titled "Tazer and Arrested by Kerry!" and you see how they just don't compare.
Perhaps if he didn't cry wolf so often... |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2007 : 21:08:43 [Permalink]
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I think that if I had been able to title the post, "Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve as history," it would have been equally "sensationalist," but more accurate. I think the sensationalism comes from the facts of the story. And if I'd been able to be really accurate with the title, it could include the whole story.
I'm pretty comfortable with the way I did it. I haven't yet figured out a more accurate way to summarize the subject in so few words.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 05:38:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I think that if I had been able to title the post, "Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve as history," it would have been equally "sensationalist," but more accurate. I think the sensationalism comes from the facts of the story. And if I'd been able to be really accurate with the title, it could include the whole story.
I'm pretty comfortable with the way I did it. I haven't yet figured out a more accurate way to summarize the subject in so few words.
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No, I think it was perfectly fine and got the point across without being misleading. It doesn't compare at all to some of Jerome's completely misleading headlines. |
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Instructor wouldn't teach Adam & Eve, is fired
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