Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Community Forums
 General Discussion
 Modernish humans from 164kYO
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2007 :  12:37:59  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Link

Findings of red pigments, small blades and most importantly seafood collection, all found in the same place dating 164kYO +/-12k.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 10/17/2007 12:38:17

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2007 :  13:01:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is fascinating. It appears these people had a pretty good thing going for a while, a local, and temporary, flowering of culture and prosperity.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2007 :  14:54:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the article:
"Yet 110,000 years later, no such modern activity, except for seafood dining, could be found in that part of South Africa, said Alison Brooks, a George Washington University anthropology professor who was not associated with Marean's study. That shows that the dip into modern life was not built upon, said Brooks, who called Marean's work "a fantastic find."

The tribe must have elected a prehistoric Republican.

.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2007 :  16:03:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Chippewa

From the article:
"Yet 110,000 years later, no such modern activity, except for seafood dining, could be found in that part of South Africa, said Alison Brooks, a George Washington University anthropology professor who was not associated with Marean's study. That shows that the dip into modern life was not built upon, said Brooks, who called Marean's work "a fantastic find."

The tribe must have elected a prehistoric Republican.

.
Good one, Chip!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2007 :  18:09:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is remarkable but I don't think it suprised anyone all that much. After all, the Theory of Evolution predicts that a species will exploit any suitable food scorce, especally one as easy as tidal flats and pools. What I think might be of much more interest would be the sophistication of the knapped tools and the pigments.

I also wonder about the dating. How does "Scientific optical dating techniques" work?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2007 :  23:39:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

This is remarkable but I don't think it suprised anyone all that much. After all, the Theory of Evolution predicts that a species will exploit any suitable food scorce, especally one as easy as tidal flats and pools. What I think might be of much more interest would be the sophistication of the knapped tools and the pigments.

I also wonder about the dating. How does "Scientific optical dating techniques" work?



I had no idea either. The optical bit intrigued me.

Pretty cool:

... optically stimulated luminescence dates were developed by Jacobs. According to Marean, the latter technique dates the last time that individual grains of sand were exposed to light, and thousands of grains were measured.

Taken from an article on the Institute of Human Origins website. It looks like a pretty cool site, I'll have to have a poke around when I've got more time.

It turns out wikiepedia has a good summary too. I should have known!

Optical dating is a method of determining how long ago minerals were last exposed to daylight. It is useful to geologists and archaeologists who want to know when such an event occurred.

Ages can be determined typically from a few hundred years to 100,000 years, and can be reliable when suitable methods are used and proper checks are done. Ages can be obtained outside this range, but they should be regarded with caution. The accuracy obtainable under optimum circumstances is about 5%.



John's just this guy, you know.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2007 :  01:06:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was afraid "scientific optical dating techniques" meant some scientist (or, more likely, some scientist's grad student) sitting at a table loaded with objects, peering at each in turn, and tossing each into a box labeled either "Old" or "New."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  14:21:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Find the straw man and win a PRIZE!! Yesiree, there is free stuff for the first alert skeptic who can spot the scarecrow in the herring barrel! Don't delay; guess today!
Right on the heels of the shattering news that Homo erectus is not our ancestor—previously taught as a fact to generations of schoolchildren and the lay public—comes the discovery that man was essentially modern some “164,000 years ago.” The crux of this breaking news story is simple: man has engaged in human activities a lot longer (evolutionarily speaking) than was previously thought.

C.W. Marean and a host of co-authors reported in the October 18, 2007, issue of Nature magazine that modern man appeared in South Africa from 100 to 200 thousand years ago. This wide range of possible dates demonstrates the tenuous nature of accurately dating the evidence. Imagine a patrolman stopping you for speeding and citing your speed as 60 to 120 miles per hour.

The authors present three evidences that show fully-modern man could easily have lived in South African caves: a small blade (“bladelet stone tool technology,” according to the Nature article), reddish pigment for “primitive” makeup, and cooked seafood.
Y'know, ICR doesn't seem to be as active as previously but when they do bestir themselves, they clearly show that they have not lost their touch.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1265 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  15:22:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
164 thousand years eh, there's gotta be some long lost civilizations out there somewhere

Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  16:41:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

164 thousand years eh, there's gotta be some long lost civilizations out there somewhere
Sure, lots of 'em. It depends upon your definition of 'civilization,' though. In a relativly simple form, the folks who left the flints & the rouge behind were a civilization. There is also the climate to consider, which was certainly different from todays. The camp by the beach/mudflats might well have been visited only seasonally.

This whole thing is no more than a tempest in a teapot. It's merely another piece of information to add to the history of our species, ICR's comedy routine not withstanding.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  16:56:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Imagine a patrolman stopping you for speeding and citing your speed as 60 to 120 miles per hour.


Yeah, but the Biblically posted speed limit was 5 MPH.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2007 :  17:34:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Imagine a patrolman stopping you for speeding and citing your speed as 60 to 120 miles per hour.


Yeah, but the Biblically posted speed limit was 5 MPH.


And we have a winnah!

For your fabulous prize, you get the warm satisfaction of knowing that I didn't have to point it out and subject the members to a lot of vicious ad hom.

Well done!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.25 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000