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 What is Photorealism?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  09:01:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marfknox.....

Thanks for the very complete description of what I asked for. I was in the middle of a lengthy post to recurve boy down under in Australia (what goes around, comes around) when I checked back and found your new post. You're not related to recurve by any chance, are you?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  09:06:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
recurve boy.....

Wiki says:
Photorealist painting cannot exist without the photograph. In Photorealism, change and movement must be frozen in time which must then be accurately represented by the artist.[14] Photorealists gather their imagery and information with the camera and photograph. Once the photograph is developed (usually onto a photographic slide) the artist will systematically transfer the image from the photographic slide onto canvases. This is done by either projecting the slide or grid techniques.[15] The resulting images are often direct copies of the original photograph but are usually larger than the original photograph or slide. This results in the photorealist style being tight and precise, often with an emphasis on imagery that requires a high level of technical prowess and virtuosity to simulate, such as reflections in specular surfaces and the geometric rigor of man-made environs.[16]

Marf says:
Transferring refers to drawing the image on another surface, sometimes by using the grid method, sometimes by projecting the photo onto the canvas and tracing. There are other methods, but grid and projection are the most common. This is also how murals are typically created the artist does a small version and then transfers it onto a larger wall.

Maybe either Chang or Eng could straighten out the apparent discrepancy here?

Edited by - bngbuck on 10/20/2007 09:11:39
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  09:22:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marf....

Do you mean by projecting, that the artist paints or draws around a light image on the canvas? In rereading both Wiki and your descriptions I see the word project used. In this sense, is it a light image?

If so, how does the artist keep his hand or body shadow from blocking the projection? Back projection and thin canvas? Sorry, these mechanical details bug me.

I have done some grid enlargement, so I understand that. But the light projection idea is as yet unclear in my ever-slowing cerebrum!
Edited by - bngbuck on 10/20/2007 09:25:25
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  10:56:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
bngbuck wrote:
I have done some grid enlargement, so I understand that. But the light projection idea is as yet unclear in my ever-slowing cerebrum!
Seriously, are you just messing with me? Yes, a light projection. Put a slide in a projector and project it on the canvas at the size and such that you want. There aren't any serious technical difficulties with this. I did a painting from a photo using projection once in college, and I had students in an after school program use an overhead projector to transfer a drawing for a mural onto a large indoor wall. The shadows must not cause that much of a problem since I was able to do this without any error with 10 junior high and teenage kids.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  11:00:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It has been speculated that Vermeer used projections from a camera obscura in some of his paintings. This claim has caused a great deal of controversy between purists who don't want to see the great master's reputation tarnished and people who say that isn't a big deal since tracing a projection is a far cry from being able to paint well, and therefore if Vermeer did use this technique, it shouldn't hurt his reputation in art history books. (The projection painting I did in college sucked!)

Neat article about Vermeer and his maybe using camera obscura: http://www.grand-illusions.com/vermeer/vermeer1.htm

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  12:18:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marfknox.....

No, I am not messing with anything! I am not an artist, but I am trying to visualize myself drawing on a movie screen with a slide being projected on it (a light image) from a projector behind me, and my arm, or hand, or body causing a shadow that would block the very image I was trying to outline or color.

I have no doubt that this is done, I have now read about it in many places besides your description, and they all agree! I guess I don't visualize very well, the only 'art' I have seriously attempted, outside of a lot of drafting back when they used a ruling pen and a T-square, was a couple of years noodling around with Paint, and then an early version of Corel Draw.

I sent your friend in Australia a quote from Wiki that describes the Photorealism process pretty well, but does not ever mention how the paint gets on the canvas or how the brush or airbrush tools are used.

I, at first, misconstrued this to mean that the photo image was actually printed on the canvas! Upon rereading the description of projection and gridding (which I do understand) I started trying to figure out how I would get around my own shadow to do this. As if I could draw or paint in the first place, as I can not! However, I can imagine.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25947 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  17:38:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
bngbuck, just hold a pencil well away from its tip, and the pencil's shadow will be the only thing in the way.

Stop trying to visualize it, and just do it, instead. Take the shade off a lamp, find a nice empty wall, sit a friend down in-between and just trace their silhouette (seat your friend so that their shadow is a profile).

I still remember my first-grade teacher doing that for the whole class. She drew our silhouettes on white construction paper, which we then cut out, and glued onto a black or darkly-colored background. My mom was thrilled.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  20:05:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
bngbuck wrote:
I sent your friend in Australia a quote from Wiki that describes the Photorealism process pretty well, but does not ever mention how the paint gets on the canvas or how the brush or airbrush tools are used.


How the paint gets on the canvas? Uh, dip paintbrush (just the tip, the part with the hairs sticking out of it) into some paint and then touch it to the canvas. It sticks!

I have never used an airbrush myself, but wikipedia has a very extensive article about how they work.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  21:23:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Marf. I just didn't know where to stick it!

I would guess an airbrush blows? or does it suck?

Thanks for the help!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  21:47:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave....

I am truly sorry for the above post to Marf. Sometimes I can't contain my enthusiasm!

But thanks for the really useful thought about holding the pencil away from it's tip. I just had not thought of holding a pencil anyplace but at at it's tip, and never having painted anything on a canvas or, as in art painting; so it did not occur to me that it would probably be a useful grasp for an artist's hand.

I am serious, no sarcasm!

I feel foolish, but it does show that one should always try to think outside of the box!

Marf's reply was useful too, as to finding the right end of the brush. You can tell I appreciated that! I really did. Marf has a largely undiscovered sense of humor!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25947 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  21:59:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still think you should try it out, even if you're grokking it now.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  22:32:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave....

I am setting up a screen as we speak!

Thanks for the word. I love it! Heinlein was one of my favorites!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25947 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  22:45:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

I am setting up a screen as we speak!
A wall with a piece of paper taped to it would be better. Solid. Won't topple over when you push on it.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  22:55:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Our wallpaper is glued to the damn wall! Should I scrape it off and tape it back up?

BTW, have you checked your internal mail?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25947 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2007 :  23:16:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Our wallpaper is glued to the damn wall! Should I scrape it off and tape it back up?
You need the blue tape. Painter's tape. It won't tear off your wallpaper, and it won't leave residue when you remove it (which is easy). Fantastic stuff.

You take a big piece of blank paper, and tape it over your wallpaper, do your tracing on it, and then take the paper down again.

If your wallpaper is textured, then tape up a piece of cardboard first (or better yet, one of those new-fangled thin cutting boards), giving you a smooth surface, and then tape your blank paper to it.
BTW, have you checked your internal mail?
Have you?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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