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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:36:00
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According to this story, the US Navy isn't clear on where the goofy 1930s Hollywood central casting-villain-accented-threatening voice actually came from during the incident with the Iranian speed boats.
From the ABC story: | ...the spokesperson for the U.S. admiral in charge of the Fifth Fleet clarified to ABC News that the threat may have come from the Iranian boats, or it may have come from somewhere else. |
Air America's Mike Malloy says its Karl Rove. YouTube videos: I am coming to you.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:24:32 [Permalink]
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At least the Navy didn't open fire, and did not insist that the threatening broadcast came from one of the boats. Thus, a "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" was avoided, rather than manufactured or exaggerated/exploited.
The Iranian Navy has recently been taken over by the Revolutionary Guard. I think of this as sort of like putting the Ku Klux Klan in charge of the US Navy. These new guys are not as disciplined, nor probably as sane, as a professional Iranian Navy. Whether they actually broadcast the threat (or dumped boxes in the path of the US ships), their maneuvering was doubtless meant to be provocative.
The same kind of BS was rather common between US and Soviet navies during the Cold War. I saw a very minor such incident, myself. (Rumor has it that lives were lost in some of these. The rumors are probably correct.) In a strange way, it's kind of comforting that these Cold War tactics are now being seen.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/10/2008 21:27:26 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:42:34 [Permalink]
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Allah, maybe? Hell, Jesus talks to Bush, why not? God's voice thundering from the sky - AH'M AGONNA GET YOU! Shit!
The whole damn thing is the nutty Iranians' idea of a joke, or some stupid test of the Navy's mettle. If we shot them out of the water,
Ahmadinejad would be howling to high heaven, if we don't, we're cowards, according to Fox! Shit!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:46:36 [Permalink]
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| I agree, Mooner! As long as this kind of monkeyshit is going on, nobody is seriously thinking abour starting WWIII, as so many of the squawking heads on TV are trying to stir up public concern about! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 17:39:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
At least the Navy didn't open fire, and did not insist that the threatening broadcast came from one of the boats. Thus, a "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" was avoided, rather than manufactured or exaggerated/exploited.
The Iranian Navy has recently been taken over by the Revolutionary Guard. I think of this as sort of like putting the Ku Klux Klan in charge of the US Navy. These new guys are not as disciplined, nor probably as sane, as a professional Iranian Navy. Whether they actually broadcast the threat (or dumped boxes in the path of the US ships), their maneuvering was doubtless meant to be provocative.
The same kind of BS was rather common between US and Soviet navies during the Cold War. I saw a very minor such incident, myself. (Rumor has it that lives were lost in some of these. The rumors are probably correct.) In a strange way, it's kind of comforting that these Cold War tactics are now being seen.
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I remember seeing some pictures on Navsource of damage on some destroyers where soviet ships would suddenly change course to cross the bow of an oncoming US warship. Brinkmanship. Usually around the entrance to the Suez canal. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2008 : 18:40:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
...I remember seeing some pictures on Navsource of damage on some destroyers where soviet ships would suddenly change course to cross the bow of an oncoming US warship. Brinkmanship. Usually around the entrance to the Suez canal. |
A long time ago I attended a lecture and the speaker showed several pictures he took of a US and Soviet vessel close encounter when he was in the US Navy. The ships would pass side by side in the same direction usually one moving faster than the other. He added that while officers topside would gaze seriously at each other (and take pictures to gather intelligence), regular crew from both navies would be further back, closer to the sterns and as the ships passed; they'd wave, shout hello and throw bundles of goodies to each other. The Russians tossed over canned goods, magazines, music cassettes, items they got in other ports; the Americans did similar including girlie magazines, comic books, chocolate, etc.
Of course both crews would shoot at each other if ordered too but occasionally there was an underlying brotherhood of mariners sometimes occurring in that situation. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 21:55:28 [Permalink]
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I find it interesting that the US Navy doesn't have the capability of locating radio signal sources. Triangulation and multilateration are well established principles, and I'm confident that we have the ability to put them into practice on the battlefield.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 23:19:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I find it interesting that the US Navy doesn't have the capability of locating radio signal sources. Triangulation and multilateration are well established principles, and I'm confident that we have the ability to put them into practice on the battlefield.
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They may have it and may indeed have used it. But don't want the precise capability known.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 04:17:10 [Permalink]
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Ask Congress to investigate .
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 01/20/2008 04:18:12 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 04:55:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
...I remember seeing some pictures on Navsource of damage on some destroyers where soviet ships would suddenly change course to cross the bow of an oncoming US warship. Brinkmanship. Usually around the entrance to the Suez canal. |
A long time ago I attended a lecture and the speaker showed several pictures he took of a US and Soviet vessel close encounter when he was in the US Navy. The ships would pass side by side in the same direction usually one moving faster than the other. He added that while officers topside would gaze seriously at each other (and take pictures to gather intelligence), regular crew from both navies would be further back, closer to the sterns and as the ships passed; they'd wave, shout hello and throw bundles of goodies to each other. The Russians tossed over canned goods, magazines, music cassettes, items they got in other ports; the Americans did similar including girlie magazines, comic books, chocolate, etc.
Of course both crews would shoot at each other if ordered too but occasionally there was an underlying brotherhood of mariners sometimes occurring in that situation.
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In 1957 I was aboard the USS Salem (CA 139), a lowely deckape on my first ship, during the Suez Crises and saw a little of this first hand. The Salem, which was Flag 6th Fleet, was an heavy cruiser and pretty much surrounded by a destroyer escort, so we had no such encounters of our own. But it was an interesting if rather miserable situation -- we were a long time between Liberty Calls, as were, I assume, the opposition. We were home-ported in Villafranch and were eager to get back.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 01/20/2008 06:39:33 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 12:13:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
...In 1957 I was aboard the USS Salem (CA 139), a lowely deckape on my first ship, during the Suez Crises and saw a little of this first hand... |
Thanks - These days it looks like she's out of mothballs and on display:
http://www.uss-salem.org/museum/history/history.htm
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2008 : 12:35:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by filthy
...In 1957 I was aboard the USS Salem (CA 139), a lowely deckape on my first ship, during the Suez Crises and saw a little of this first hand... |
Thanks - These days it looks like she's out of mothballs and on display:
http://www.uss-salem.org/museum/history/history.htm
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I didn't know that! Thanks Chip!!
Now I wax nostalgic; I was one of the last of the crew to leave her when she was decommishioned in Portsmouth VA. Years later, when I was discharged in Philly, I paid her a last visit before I left the base. She looked lifeless, and that's the last memory I've carried of her ever since. I'm delighted that she again serves, albeit no longer carrying Flag.
I've been aboard a lot of ships, but none was like the Salem.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2008 : 15:42:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
...I didn't know that! Thanks Chip!!... |
BTW - Check out those links on top of that webpage as well as the underlined links a little further down. There's a Salem Association as well as some photos of the ship, one is a mail drop by chopper from April 1957. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2008 : 18:44:12 [Permalink]
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Checked 'em out, Chip. I wasn't aboard but for one of them and hadn't been aboard very long then. I was even able to pick out the gun I served at General Quarters; Mount 52, a 5" X 38. I was the hot case man, responsible for clearing the mount of spent shell cases during firing.
We were visited by ex-prez Harry Truman and Princess Grace among others.
Again, thanks!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 01/20/2008 18:46:31 |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 17:42:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Dude
I find it interesting that the US Navy doesn't have the capability of locating radio signal sources. Triangulation and multilateration are well established principles, and I'm confident that we have the ability to put them into practice on the battlefield. |
They may have it and may indeed have used it. But don't want the precise capability known. |
One problem is that Bridge-to-Bridge radio traffic is everywhere in The Gulf. This makes it very difficult to localize a single transmission. In my professional opinion (though I have only read the news articles, not the actual reports), our Sailors were very careful in this case and would have been justified to kill the oncoming Fast Attack Crafts.
For their reluctance to escalate an already tense situation, these men and women deserve a strong Bravo Zulu. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 20:16:45 [Permalink]
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I think in this case, the Navy's restraint should be respected. You even hear that in the bridge chatter in the videos. These people were going out of their way to avoid an incident.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Iranian Speedboat Ploy
