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 Encouraging hints about EEStor supercapacitor
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  02:59:20  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I've mentioned in two previous posts, EEStor is a Texas company which claims to have perfected a supercapacitor capable of storing electrical power at an energy density of 1.0 MJ/kg. This compares to typical energy densities of capacitors of about 0.01 MJ/kg, and Lithium battery energy densities of about 0.540.72 MJ/kg.

This is a big, very big, deal if true, as it would provide a crucial breakthrough in storage, making electric cars much more practical. But, as always in such bleeding-edge technologies, it's often hard to tell the vapor from the reality. For its part, EEStor has been amazingly close-lipped about its product. But now, we have a pretty good hint that some serious engineers have looked at the EEStor supercapacitor, and saw that it was good.

Now, Lockheed (hardly a lot of credulous fools) has signed a contract with EEStor to get copies of the supercapacitor. If Lockheed signed such a contract, it's almost certain that these things work as advertised.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/16/2008 03:01:11

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  09:09:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Either that or its a sign to sell your Lockheed stock now


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  16:53:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mooner.....

I had my broker on the phone and my checkbook out when I read this discussion from one of the links in the wiki EEStor article. "Anonymous" sure seems to know what he's talking about. My engineering expertise isn't anywhere near up to a full reading of his technical arguments against EEStor. What do you think?

Is their an EE out there in Forumland that might like to comment on the technical accuracy of this blog?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2008 :  18:04:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't and won't make investment suggestions. I'm no damned good at it! I'm interested purely because we need such a technology.

I notice the Lockheed contract came after the pessimistic article. I've just got to suppose it's most likely that if the operators of the Skunk Works are that interested, there is probably something to all this. Also, EEStor's hated silence is actually encouraging. Contrast this to companies that are all hot air and demonstrate no working products ever, as with Steorn's infamous "Orbo."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2008 :  08:48:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I absolutely recall a discussion about this some time ago on SFN.

Yes, it's now in the Archives: EEStor's storage capacitor: Breakthru or baloney?

The difference between a capasitor (the capacitor) and a lithium-ion cell should be that the cap shouldn't experience aging the same way the battery cell does. And the charging capabilities of a capacitor enables "gas-stations" where vehicles can recharge on the go while the driver is having a coffee break. That's nice enough...


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2008 :  13:56:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dr. Mabuse.....

Thanks much for the link to the previous energy thread. I follow the battery vs. capacitor developments pretty closely, and I have a personal interest with a Tesla on order. About the time it arrives I expect to find that lithium-ion technology is so 2007, and ultracaps are starting to replace batteries by the thousands across the US!

BTW, I got a newsletter from the Chevy Volt people today that over 10,000 reservation orders for the 2010 Volt have been accepted. They expect to have 50,000 orders by the time they go into production in mid 2010. The Volt is a true electric with an onboard small ICE charging engine allowing 500 miles on a small tank of gasoline. You may have already seen a number of national TV ads for the Volt. GM is spending millions advertising a car that they aren't going to produce for two and a half years!

If they make a roadster, I'm going to sell the Tesla as a first edition collector car and buy a Volt!

Buy Utility stocks! The're a bargain today, and think where they're going when the electric revolution really starts to arrive and Big Oil starts to buy out the electric distribution system of the United States!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2008 :  14:11:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

Whatever happened to R.Wreck, Original Intent (joe), Fripp, Franklin, and especially rbh, who were vocal and expressive back in 2006? Where do these good voices go that used to be posting good stuff and don't seem to be around any more?

Seriously, does the contributing membership grow, or shrink, or remain about constant with new members replacing old on a roughly one for one, or what? Just curious.....
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2008 :  14:16:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Dave.....

Whatever happened to R.Wreck, Original Intent (joe), Fripp, Franklin, and especially rbh, who were vocal and expressive back in 2006? Where do these good voices go that used to be posting good stuff and don't seem to be around any more?

Seriously, does the contributing membership grow, or shrink, or remain about constant with new members replacing old on a roughly one for one, or what? Just curious.....
Both Wreck and OI have been around for awhile and have posted often. However, oftentimes "real life" gets in the way and attention to something like SFN wanes-- sometimes for months at a time. But then a new development will arise and bring someone back. Sometimes, people really do seem to have left and had no desire to return (what ever happened to Tokyodreamer?), but other people post in a flurry, disappear, and months later return (though I admit that verlch is long overdue for a come-back!)
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gerund
New Member

1 Post

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  15:01:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send gerund a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This approach is not indicative of pump and dump scenarios.

Without being technically adept with the tech, most here are familiar with scam techniques. IMO this is not.
No attempt at soliciting advertising, spreading the word or responding to inquiries except close associates. No website, no concern with any but select investors who are allowed to observe tech, product and production line most likely with thorough explanation of tech to qualified scientists for expected due diligence. Tech is closely guarded probably because patent filings are incomplete. Something like 11 patents pending I think was reported. All observers have to sign confidentiality agreements I am sure.

Most of all, no actual exposure of product until set for actual production=no BS for money. Facts and production= big money and big leverage.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2008 :  21:05:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by gerund

This approach is not indicative of pump and dump scenarios.

Without being technically adept with the tech, most here are familiar with scam techniques. IMO this is not.
No attempt at soliciting advertising, spreading the word or responding to inquiries except close associates. No website, no concern with any but select investors who are allowed to observe tech, product and production line most likely with thorough explanation of tech to qualified scientists for expected due diligence. Tech is closely guarded probably because patent filings are incomplete. Something like 11 patents pending I think was reported. All observers have to sign confidentiality agreements I am sure.

Most of all, no actual exposure of product until set for actual production=no BS for money. Facts and production= big money and big leverage.

Welcome to SFN, gerund!

I agree. This technology seems almost certainly to be a real attempt by engineers and scientists to create a breakthrough supercapacitor. Everything about how it's being handled makes it sound as though it's not a scam for investors. Still, at best it's extremely bleeding-edge technology, so seeing prototypes that actually work will be what convinces me.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2008 :  05:30:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a discouraging article about EEStor's supercapacitor:
Following months of silence about the progress of its potentially world-changing energy storage device, the secretive Cedar Park, Texas-based firm, EEStor, has issued a press release announcing that it has reached key production milestones. One such marker for example is, " the certification of the completeness of the powder crystallization of the constituents utilized in producing its [composition modified barium titanate] CMBT powders." For those of you lacking a degree in advanced materials science, we believe what they are trying to say is that some of the materials which they will use to create their electrical energy storage unit (EESU) are within the specifications necessary for production. No, they haven't actually produced a working prototype or anything they could point to to prove they have the answer to life, the universe and everything but they have indeed created the most complicated sounding press release of all time.
And now there's a blog focused on EEStor.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/05/2008 05:37:32
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Steve321
New Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  02:17:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Steve321 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Greetings,
I noticed EESTOR was first discussed on this forum 09/21/2006. Has any third party verified EESTOR's claims since that date? Has anyone outside EESTOR's Dick Weir fantasy world seen an EESU? When Dr. Lyle of GM-Volt.com asked DW if there are prototyes, he refused to answer. What doesn't make sense of EESTOR is if they are going to revolutionize the transportation world, how is it they are having funding problems? How come no credible auto manufacturer (GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota) has signed a contract with EESTOR?
The only conclusion I could reach is EESTOR is nothing but "baloney".
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  03:14:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Steve321

Greetings,
I noticed EESTOR was first discussed on this forum 09/21/2006. Has any third party verified EESTOR's claims since that date? Has anyone outside EESTOR's Dick Weir fantasy world seen an EESU? When Dr. Lyle of GM-Volt.com asked DW if there are prototyes, he refused to answer. What doesn't make sense of EESTOR is if they are going to revolutionize the transportation world, how is it they are having funding problems? How come no credible auto manufacturer (GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota) has signed a contract with EESTOR?
The only conclusion I could reach is EESTOR is nothing but "baloney".
Welcome to SFN, Steve!

You have good points. I admit to have been hopeful that this was a breakthrough as huge as it appeared. Even skeptics get sucker-punched, though -- when we let down our skeptical shield. It may indeed be that it was wishful thinking alone that made me so open to this claim.

I now agree "baloney" is the best summary of the EEStor saga. It's simply been too long, with no visible result. I don't see what the point of it all was, as they weren't trying to get funding from the public. I don't see this as a classic scam. But maybe the corporation itself was convinced by a unworkable proposal from its engineers. Maybe I'm being too kind, but I simply don't see the payoff if this is a corporate scam.

What do you think is going on, Steve? What else have you heard?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/24/2009 03:32:29
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1989 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  07:22:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought this old news from a year ago pretty much put the kebash on much of any news about EEStor and its capacitor battery. When Lockheed Martin buys out something for "military and homeland security applications", one would think that's it for any news or private application for a long, long time.



"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Steve321
New Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  09:25:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Steve321 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now, Lockheed (hardly a lot of credulous fools) has signed a contract with EEStor to get copies of the supercapacitor. If Lockheed signed such a contract, it's almost certain that these things work as advertised.


If these things work "as advertised", why is EESTOR unable to deliver an EESU promised to ZENN Motors Corp as far back as 2006?

ZENN CEO Ian Clifford has stated they will receive an EESU from EESTOR in 2007. What happened? Then in 2008 Ian Clifford stated EESTOR's EESU delivery was "imminent" for delivery in 2008? What happened?

How could EESTOR have funding problem? Didn't LM sign a contract with EESTOR?

http://earth2tech.com/2008/10/28/eestors-production-delays-due-to-funding/





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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  16:05:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Steve321

Now, Lockheed (hardly a lot of credulous fools) has signed a contract with EEStor to get copies of the supercapacitor. If Lockheed signed such a contract, it's almost certain that these things work as advertised.


If these things work "as advertised", why is EESTOR unable to deliver an EESU promised to ZENN Motors Corp as far back as 2006?

ZENN CEO Ian Clifford has stated they will receive an EESU from EESTOR in 2007. What happened? Then in 2008 Ian Clifford stated EESTOR's EESU delivery was "imminent" for delivery in 2008? What happened?

How could EESTOR have funding problem? Didn't LM sign a contract with EESTOR?

http://earth2tech.com/2008/10/28/eestors-production-delays-due-to-funding/
You'll get no argument with me, sorry. Note that you're quoting me from back when I was more credulously prone to believing that EEStor was onto something.

In my recent reply to you, I agreed with your use of "baloney."

What seemed a good argument to me months ago doesn't seem so now. I'll believe EEStor has a real breakthrough when and if they demonstrate a working prototype to scientists and engineers. Unless something like that happens, I think they have nothing.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/24/2009 16:06:48
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