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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2008 :  01:45:49  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The following cartoon from Cetic demonstrates the Disco Institute's advanced quote-mining technology:


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2008 :  02:54:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not just the Discovery Institute...not by a long shot!


Hold on...
1) Here's the Colin Patterson misquote:

from Answers in Genesis.

TalkOrigins has the refutation here


2) Here's a Richard Dawkins misquote from: Answers in Genesis

There quote is taken from Evolution: The dissent of Darwin', Psychology Today, January/February 1997, p. 62.



I should note that this article is mentioned several times in places on their site.

There's the part they quoted. Below is the part that they left out:

"Even a cheetah as a killing machine is beautiful. But the process that gave rise to it is, indeed, nature red in tooth and claw.
However, you go further when you call evolution evil. I would simply say nature is pitilessly indefferent to human concerns and should be ignored when we try to work out our moral and ethical systems. We should instead say, We're on our own. We are unique in the animal kingdom in having brains big enough not to follow the dictates of the selfish genes. And we are in the unique position of being able to use our brains to work out together the kind of society in which we want to live. But the one thing we must definately not do is what Julian Huxley did, which is try to see evolution as some kind of an object lesson."


From: 'Evolution: The dissent of Darwin', Psychology Today, January/February 1997, page 60, same article. Not too sure about this page number right now, it's been a while. ...

That last line should probably be kept in mind whenever those people say (or quote somebody as implying that evolution itself is some kind of moral or non-moral basis).


Lanier and Dawkins go on to discuss the qualities that no other species has: language, and the ability to plan ahead for the long-term future.

At any rate, nowhere in the article does either Dawkins imply that evolution means that we shouldn't bother with morals. All he seemed to say is that we have to figure them out on our own.

That seems to go against the title the AIG people picked for their "article" linked to above: Evolution - No Morality


Note: the AIG people ignore Dawkins' advice in the last line: They go ahead and quote Julian Huxley saying the thing that Dawkins says that we should NOT do! The power of the misquote: if they used the whole Dawkins article, they'd know that (at least) one person (an atheist yet) does NOT buy into Huxley's idea, yet the AIG people still use Huxley, giving the impression that all evolutionists think that way, even though it's obvious that they don't.

3) Here's their Huxley quote.

There's no copyright notice here, so screw it!

Humanism as religion --- Sir Julian Huxley
Fascinating Quotes

Quoted in:
Creation Ex Nihilo 22(4):23, Sepember--November 2000

'A religion is essentially an attitude to the world as a whole. Thus evolution, for example, may prove as powerful a principle to co-ordinate men's beliefs and hopes as God was in the past. Such ideas underlie the various forms of Rationalism, the Ethical movement and scientific Humanism.'

'Humanism: An outlook that places man and his concerns at the centre of interest. Modern Humanism, which does away with traditional Christianity, is characterised by its faith in the power of human beings to create their own future, collectively and personally.'

In other words, evolution = religion. That is, people (not God) set whatever rules they want. In practice, this usually becomes 'might makes right', including the tyranny of the majority.

Reference

Growth of Ideas. The evolution of thought and knowledge. Ed. Sir Julian Huxley, 1965, pp. 99, 336.



Speaking of evolution and religion, here's a misquote of Micheal Ruse
3) Here's the Micheal Ruse quote: here

What follows is from the two e-mails that Dr. Ruse gave me when I e-mailed him the above article:

well, I did say that evolution is a religion but I was taken out of context -- I think that too often evolutionists take their theory in a religious fashion when they should treat it as science -- let me see if I can dig something out for you -- but really you should read my book "can a darwinian be a christian?" published by cambridge university press

michael ruse



The second e-mail he gave me basically was the text of the article the creationists quoted from. I can't repost it all here, naturally so I'll just give the relevant part. Basically, he says the evolution is "wonderful science", something the AIG people NEVER say. He says that as science, it should be taught as such. Any "moral" issues one wants to derive from it, has no place in a science classroom.

(Anyway, remember Dawkin's saying that we shouldn't use evolutionary biology as a moral guidepost?) By leaving out the stuff I've included, the AIG people have propagated the false belief that evolution has no science instead, but is rather just a "belief system" of some sort.

In the original article which Dr. Ruse sent me, Gish says:

"Dr Ruse," Gish said, "the trouble with you evolutionists is that you just don't play fair. You want to stop us religious people from teaching our views in schools. But you evolutionists are just as religious in your way. Christianity tells us where we came from, where we're going, and what we should do on the way. I defy you to tell any difference about evolution. It tells you where you came from, where you are going, and what you should do on the way. You evolutionists have your God, and His name is Charles Darwin!"



For some reason, Ruse never thought about what to me should be obvious: Evolution only tells us how we got here. It does not say how we should act (remember the Dawkins bit above?), or where we're going. Also, if Darwin was our "god", why would we have changed his "holy writ" so much? There's been alterations to his theory since then due to genetics and such.


Anyway, here's the part of Ruse's article that AIG would not want you to read:

What is the moral to be drawn from all of this? You might think that the time has come to save evolution from the evolutionists. Darwinism is a terrific theory that stimulates research in every area of the life sciences.

In the human realm, for instance, discoveries in Africa trace our immediate past in ever greater detail, while at the same time the findings from the Human Genome Project open up incredibly interesting evolutionary questions as we learn of the molecular similarities between ourselves and organisms as apparently different as fruit flies and earthworms. Surely this is enough.


There is no need to make a religion of this. On its own merits, evolution as science is just that -- good, tough, forward-looking science, which should be taught as a matter of course to all children, regardless of creed.

But, let us be tolerant. If people want to make a religion of evolution, that is their business. Who would deny the value of Wilson's plea for biodiversity? Who would argue against Gould's hatred of racial and sexual prejudice? The important point is that we should recognize when people are going beyond the strict science, moving into moral and social claims, thinking of their theory as an all-embracing world picture. All too often, there is a slide from science to something more, and this slide goes unmentioned -- unrealized even. For pointing this out we should be grateful for the opponents of evolution and heed what they have to say.

The Creationists are wrong in their Creationism, but they are right in at least one of their criticisms.


I of course, have said how I differed on that...

Evolution, Darwinian evolution, is wonderful science. Let us teach it to our children. And, in the classroom, let us leave it at that. The moral messages, the underlying ideology, may be worthy. But if we feel strongly, there are other times and places to preach that gospel to the world.



For more examples, check out here, and escpecially look at the bottom of that article under Online resources documenting antievolutionist misquotations for the links to other articles about creationists misquotes.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 02/01/2008 03:11:34
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2008 :  06:58:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Quote Mine Project.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2008 :  07:28:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote


"Workin' in a quote mine
Goin' down down down
Workin' in a quote mine
Whop! about to slip down
Workin' in a quote mine
Goin' down down down
Workin' in a quote mine
Whop! about to slip down

Five o'clock in the mornin'
I'm all ready up and gone
Lord I am so tired
How long can this go on?

I'm workin' in a quote mine
Goin' down down down
Workin' in a quote mine
Whop! about to slip down
Workin' in a quote mine
Goin' down down down
Workin' in a quote mine
Whop! about to slip down...."


With due apologies to Lee Dorsey.

But hey, lies, spiritual (and sometimes phsycal) intimidation and a pretty good stage presence is all they have. Sometimes I wonder why they have any credibility at all, however misplaced it might be.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2008 :  07:48:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

With due apologies to Lee Dorsey.
A couple years too late.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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