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 Crop circles again......
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2008 :  15:45:10  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find myself appalled by the lack of any sort of critical thinking about these things.
More crop circles appear in East Tennessee

A | A | A Madisonville (WVLT) - Man-made or alien-aligned? For the second time in two years, a crop circle's appeared in Monroe County.

Volunteer TV's Mike McCarthy's walked the crop circle.

Does anyone know what made this? Not just yet, but everyone has their own theory. This new designs just down the road from the first crop circle. That appeared last May also in a wheat field. Neighbors say whoever, or whatever did it worked quickly and quietly.

Beyond still-standing blades, there are others pushed in a perfect pattern.

"I don't know whether it's man-made or not," resident Johnnie Helm said.

It's the second Monroe County Crop Circle in two years. These lines and curves appeared in Johnnie Helm's 50-acre wheat field Monday morning.

"I didn't hear nothing. And I'm up and down all night," Helm said.

Her neighbor, Jean Merrell first spotted the bent blades.

"I always look out the window, and I thought, my goodness, what's in the field? What's happened?" resident Jean Merrell said.

The "what"? Well, the crushed crops form a triangle. At each corner a pair of circles, but "how" and "who" wilted the wheat is a crop quandary.

"I really don't think it's man-made. I don't believe anyone could do that, that quick and so perfect," Merrell said.



And therein lies the answer: these things are so geometrically perfect that it is highly unlikely that anything but a meticulous prankster(s) would or even could do it. As for visiting aliens, first you must provide empirical evidence of such and at least hypothesize a reason. Yeesh!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2008 :  16:46:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Filthy.....

"I didn't hear nothing. And I'm up and down all night," Helm said.
Obviously has better things to do in bed than look for aliens!

Actually, the above example is extremely simple compared to some of the really complicated ones! Like.....



and....







All of these, of course, were done by teenagers dragging 2x4's behind ropes in the middle of the night, and all were done in about twenty minutes or so, which has been amply proven by confessions of several teenagers (and a few adults)!

Remarkable talent in manipulating a few boards and ropes in a few midnight moments, though!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  04:47:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meticulous planning, rehearsing at least once, and the execution will be quick.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  05:09:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Meticulous planning, rehearsing at least once, and the execution will be quick.
Damned straight it will! I suspect that most of the above were studiously planned and worked on all winter and perhaps even over the course of a year or so.

I also wonder if, sometimes, the landowner is not in on the gag.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:42:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mabuse and Filthy....

Yes. A tremendous amount of time, effort, ingenuity, expense, and intense application on the part of many participants.

Over and over, and over....many hundreds of times!

Over the years!

TO WHAT END?

Is it Art?
Edited by - bngbuck on 05/12/2008 12:45:02
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:49:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Mabuse and Filthy....

Yes. A tremendous amount of time, effort, ingenuity, expense, and intense application on the part of many participants.

Over and over, and over....many hundreds of times!

Over the years!

TO WHAT END?

Is it Art?
Maybe, but it's really a good laugh at the expense of the UFO gullibloids and the myopic media that follow them around.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  13:50:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Originally posted by bngbuck

Mabuse and Filthy....

Yes. A tremendous amount of time, effort, ingenuity, expense, and intense application on the part of many participants.

Over and over, and over....many hundreds of times!

Over the years!

TO WHAT END?

Is it Art?
Maybe, but it's really a good laugh at the expense of the UFO gullibloids and the myopic media that follow them around.
That alone has to be reward enough.

(Though I don't think expense comes in to it. Not that much. Most all circles are made with very simple means: long ropes, a few planks and some stakes.)

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  14:02:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it just me, or does that crop circle look like 3 stations triangulating the epicenter of an earthquake?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  18:00:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Filthy....

Maybe, but it's really a good laugh at the expense of the UFO gullibloids
Yes, these UFO diehards are hardly worth the time to deride, but "the myopic media that follow them around" are just generating the day's news, and they don't give a single thought to or care what they are saying, as long as they fill space in newspapers and time on TV.

But...
I find myself appalled by the lack of any sort of critical thinking about these things.
Real "critical thinkers" or just folks like Johnnie Helm and Jean Merrell? I think a lot of real critical thinkers refuse to even think beyond the "teenagers with ropes and boards" simplistic explanations of these things. Johnnie and Jean don't know how to think critically!

It's stupid to talk about aliens, and I don't want anybody (like Dude) telling me that that's my secret hope. That's bullshit, pure and simple! These really complicated crop circles were made by ordinary human beings. And obviously not by one or two crackpots or teenagers! But why the enormous effort by skilled people of some peculiar persuasion, with decided talent and abilities. And for the larger ones, a considerable team of folks! To what end?

Mabuse says...
Meticulous planning, rehearsing at least once, and the execution will be quick.
Well, I agree with the 'planning' part! Rehearsing? What do you do, send the team around screwing up wheat fields until you get it right? And nobody ever sees or photographs your trial attempts? Quick? How quick for one of those big suckers I showed above?

Why do they do it - 'they' being quite a group around the world - because this shit has been going on for over thirty years. Google has about 140,000 images of them, many of course being duplicates. There can be no doubt that there have been thousands, however. And occasionally, several pop up in disparate locations almost simultaneously!

There is no specific recognition of the "artists", no named publicity for most of the perps. No monetary reward, and probably a considerable cost to do the really big ones!

Many have been proven beyond a doubt to be made by specific pranksters. But examining just the most complicated - and for all you that want examples, just punch "crop circles" into Google Images and you will get hundreds of pages with 20 images per page - a great deal of skilled effort is obvious!

CC's, like the enormous and complex designs of which I posted several examples, are not the work of two or three guys and a dragging board! They are the work of a team of practiced and skilled, well..., practitioners!

Doesn't it pique anybody's curiosity as to what the motive for, modus operandi of, and logistics of these hundreds of highly complex and precisely executed designs are? It sure does mine! Whatever happened to "how did they do that?" And "why?"
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  19:40:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck
Mabuse says...
Meticulous planning, rehearsing at least once, and the execution will be quick.
Well, I agree with the 'planning' part! Rehearsing? What do you do, send the team around screwing up wheat fields until you get it right? And nobody ever sees or photographs your trial attempts? Quick? How quick for one of those big suckers I showed above?

You can do it in a quarter scale on some sandy beach or similar, and film it with a video camera. Or just take pics with an ordinary camera to confirm the design.



Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  20:52:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found some of the professionals that are doing this thing. Answers a lot of questions! apparently, you can make money making crop circles!

Circlemakers





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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  20:53:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why do it? <shrug> Why not do it? Bragging rights for a good joke are as sweet a reward as any.

Who would they brag to, you ask? I would suppose, others who go 'round in the same circles. I say this considering that there are so many done that there might be some communication involved. I also suspect that the landowned(s) are often in cahoots with them, if not the actual perpretrators themselves.

It's interesting to note that the only circlers that have been caught at it are pretty much amatures, if that's the word I want to use. Thus the general opinion that these things are done almost entirely by teen agers. I have some doubts about that.

Anyhow, it's all in good fun (except for the crop damage) and I get as good a laugh out of the media hysterics as the circlers themselves. But I'm still put off by the silly, public assumptions that humans couldn't do it.

Hey, we faked a moon landing, didn't we? Crop circles are a piece of cake.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  21:17:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm finding a wealth of reference on this peculiar, world-wide art/commercial/prank enterprise. There apparently are quite a number of professionals engaged full time in making crop circles for fun and profit! And have been for some time!

I'll do a report in a few days and try to be comprehensive! This stuff is fascinating! There are more things, Horatio.....!!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2008 :  23:27:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
bng.... you're into the whole UFO thing, and you didn't know about the crop-circle guys? Seriously? Damn man, there have been television documentaries! I recall one from not very long ago, the guys doing it used a computer drafting program, google earth, and GPS units to plot their designs. 3 or 4 people can drop those extremely elaborate circles into a field (with ropes, a stake, and a couple of boards) in very short order.

The best part of this particular show was the "UFO" experts they brought in to "examine" the designs. One guy even had some kind of gieger counter and a "EM meter" right out of a ghost hunter episode... and they ALL said they circles were definitely made by aliens (or some equally improbable agent)!


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2008 :  02:22:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

bng.... you're into the whole UFO thing, and you didn't know about the crop-circle guys? Seriously? Damn man, there have been television documentaries! I recall one from not very long ago, the guys doing it used a computer drafting program, google earth, and GPS units to plot their designs. 3 or 4 people can drop those extremely elaborate circles into a field (with ropes, a stake, and a couple of boards) in very short order.

The best part of this particular show was the "UFO" experts they brought in to "examine" the designs. One guy even had some kind of gieger counter and a "EM meter" right out of a ghost hunter episode... and they ALL said they circles were definitely made by aliens (or some equally improbable agent)!


At last! I now know something of what a 'UFO expert' actually does. He counts giegers and meters EMs at crop circle sites. I knew it must be some sort of valuable, public service or other.

I don't really keep track of this sort of thing beyond getting a laugh out of it now & again, but, yeesh, it's so easy to figure out that I'm amazed anyone could attribute the circles to anything but the perfectly natural, human urge to show off, if only anonymously.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2008 :  02:43:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On a related matter:
Astronauts say there must be life in space

Published: Monday May 12, 2008

The human race will find life elsewhere in the universe as it pushes ahead with space exploration, astronauts back from the latest US space mission said Monday.

"If we push back boundaries far enough, I'm sure eventually we'll find something out there," said Mike Foreman, a mission specialist on the Endeavour, which returned to Earth in March.

"Maybe not as evolved as we are, but it's hard to believe that there is not life somewhere else in this great universe," he told a news conference in Tokyo.

The crew members on the 16-day Endeavour mission, which included a Japanese astronaut, said that so far they have not seen anything inexplicable or mysterious in terms of other life forms.

"I personally believe that we are going to find something that we can't explain," said another astronaut, Gregory Johnson.
While this sort of paralells my own thoughts, it really doesn't help calm the woo-woo much.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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