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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1213 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  09:27:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First test of Bedini circuit and over unity.

1. Charge two 12 volt car batteries (A and B) to 12.5 volts.
2. Measure voltage every 30 minutes for two hours to ensure batteries will maintain a charge.
3. Hook up a 12 volt, 10 watt lamp to each battery.
4. Record voltage measurements on both batteries every 15 minutes until the battery is down to 9 volts.
5. Repeat steps 1-5 three times and average results of time to discharge to 9 volts.
6. Charge two 12 volt car batteries (A and B) to 12.5 volts.
7. Hook up batteries to Bedini circuit. Battery A is the drive battery and Battery B is the charging battery.
8. Hook up a 12 volt, 10 watt lamp to each battery.
9. Record voltage measurements on both batteries every 15 minutes until the drive battery is down to 9 volts.
10. Repeat steps 6-9 three times.
11. Switch battery A to charging battery and Battery B to drive battery and repeat steps 7-10.
12. Compare results.

My idea is that if the Bedini circuit provides “new” energy to the system then the discharge time to 9 volts should be greater than without the circuit. My prediction is that the times will be less because it is powering the Bedini circuit as well.

Please provide any feedback if you think this is a valid test or not. I haven't done anything like this since college.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Jn 3:18

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
Edited by - Robb on 11/06/2008 09:28:17
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  10:26:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the battery charging and discharging will cause dissipation of energy, as well as the circuit of electricity through the wiring.

So an apologist could argue that the motor DID achieve over-unity, just not enough to compensate for the heat dissipation in the rest of the circuit...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1213 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  10:58:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Well, the battery charging and discharging will cause dissipation of energy, as well as the circuit of electricity through the wiring.

So an apologist could argue that the motor DID achieve over-unity, just not enough to compensate for the heat dissipation in the rest of the circuit...
But don't these losses have to be included in the efficiency calculations? If it cannot overcome the heat dissipation then it is not overunity.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Jn 3:18

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  11:19:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well; the setup Bedini motor+battery would not be over-unity; but it does not necessarily means that the Bedini itself is not.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1213 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  13:18:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Well; the setup Bedini motor+battery would not be over-unity; but it does not necessarily means that the Bedini itself is not.
Then I would need to take continuous power readings as it is running. Although if I cannot do work with it what good is it even if it is overunity.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Jn 3:18

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  13:42:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apart from revolutionizing physics you mean? ;p


Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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jgiorgi
New Member

USA
1 Post

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  16:20:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send jgiorgi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Bedini motor is not an overunity device or free energy device of any kind (as most of the enthusiasts have discovered and now admit to). There is still some promise in this device.

By connecting a small fan to the rotor of a Bedini motor you can experiment with the motor as a high-efficiency, low-torque motor. For this application I see a lot of potential. In just a basic experiment the Bedini motor in a single battery configuration was able to run a fan of equal weight and size for about 4 times longer than a conventional DC motor. (If you'd like the details on this experiment PM me. I would like to see someone replicate my results.)

I have several motors being used to desulphate deep-cycle lead-acid batteries. Compared to a typical trickle desulphator I'm able to restore more heavily sulphated batteries. I'm also able to bring batteries closer to their original capacity. Unfortunately the process takes a lot longer.

I haven't had time to run any lifecycle experiments but my neighbor does have the same batteries I use. Mine are desulphated using a Bedini motor once per year. His have not. Mine score a little higher on a load test and test closer to their original capacity. Our power demands are roughly the same but there may be some variable I'm not seeing. This winter I'll be buying more batteries. I think I'll leave a couple aside and compare batteries in the same system.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  20:12:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi jgiorgi, I love this topic and would like more information. Are you just in the business of reconditioning batteries for others?
You said,,,
This winter I'll be buying more batteries.
Will these be deep cycle lead acid batteries? You buying them suggests you are using them in some system, what applications are you using deep cycle lead acid batteries for?

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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ConjoinedToes
New Member

1 Post

Posted - 03/09/2016 :  15:33:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConjoinedToes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In case anyone is still wondering about the Bedini motor, I have done the legwork and can now explain it.

The Bedini motor is a mechanical version of a "Joule Thief", which is a circuit for scavenging all remaining power in a battery and providing it at a usefully high voltage. For example, a joule thief can provide your iPod with the 3V it needs, even though its 2 batteries are down to 0.5V apiece. The joule thief accomplishes this by drawing an increasing amount of current (at decreasing voltage), and transforming it to a higher voltage (at vastly lower current).

The joule thief is an everyday device and obviously does not create overunity or utilize "radiant energy".

Bedini's motor accomplishes this using a motor, flywheel, and magnets. The motor is able to run from a battery with as little as 10% charge remaining; the motor simply runs slower and slower. The motor drives a flywheel, using little pulses of power from the battery. The flywheel uses its own momentum to continue turning in-between pulses.

Meanwhile, the magnets on the flywheel are constantly inducing currents in the output coil. When the output coil's circuit is interrupted (by the flywheel, transistor, and input coil), its magnetic field abruptly collapses, causing an inductive voltage spike. This spike can, in theory, achieve infinite voltage. In practice the voltage reaches 200V to 300V, but of course at a trivially small amperage and for a trivially short timespan.

These tiny high-voltage spikes can charge a battery, because chemical batteries are tolerant of such things.

Now for the fun part.

If you use this arrangement to charge a battery that has been abused, the high-voltage spikes will clean the lead sulphate crystals off the battery's plates, giving it a new lease on life. The battery will appear to gain more energy than the Bedini motor is consuming... thus giving rise to the overunity claims and all the woo talk about radiant energy.

(The removal of sulfates from batteries using high-voltage spikes is common knowledge, and cheap devices are all over ebay for doing exactly what a Bedini motor does.)

Of course you can only do that trick a couple of times on an old battery before all the lead sulphate is removed. At that point you're back to input = output.

As for the trick of charging three "dead" batteries from one live one, you must remember that a Bedini motor is a joule thief: it can make use of at least 90% of all chemical energy stored in a battery. The trick consists of one's definition of "dead battery": they use 90% of the capacity of the good battery to charge three "dead" batteries from 70% to 100%. You can tell that's the trick by looking at the terminal voltage of the "dead" batteries: they start them at 10 or 11 volts, which is "dead" as far as your car engine is concerned, but not dead from an electrochemical standpoint.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2016 :  21:32:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, ConjoinedToes!

Thanks for the info. Very tidy.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2016 :  08:07:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello and welcome, ConjoinedToes!

Thank you for the explanation! It explains a lot of things. The Joule Thief is known to us.

A brief discussion on "the Batterizer":
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16251

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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