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Dave W.
Info Junkie

26020 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2019 :  01:16:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by SGunn

I was prepared to write my answer but this is easier
This still doesn't answer the question: given Christianity's higher body count, why doesn't your book describe the Biblical roots of Christian terrorism (like it does the Quranic roots of Islamic terrorism)?

The Qur'an tells Muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Quran, chapters (Surahs) 9:5; 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.
I don't doubt it. The Bible has lots of places in which the Christian god tells people to go kill others.

Fight for Allah: "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).
Pronoun trouble. "Them" appears to refer to "transgressors."

Muslims are to battle for Allah: "Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak," (Quran 4:76).
Are those metaphorical battles? Lots of metaphorical battles are waged in the Bible.

Kill those against Islam: "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter," (Quran 5:33).
"Kill those against Islam"? No. Kill "those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land."

Beheading: "When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 13That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment," (Quran 8:12).
Those were instructions for angels.

Allah urges war: "O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand," (Quran 8:65).
Again, is this a metaphorical war?

Slay non-Muslims: "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful," (Quran 9:5).
"Idolaters" is not a synonym for "non-Muslim," is it?

Allah urges war: "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination," (Quran 9:73).
This is really stretching it. "Strive hard" means "go to war"? I don't think so.

Allah urges war: "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil)," (Quran 9:123).
Metaphorical fighting?

Allah urges killing: " . . . the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist . . . 61Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering. 62(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah, (Quran 33:60-62).
Yes, this is no different than many of the Old Testament's Commandments. Lev 20:9, "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death."

Beheading: "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens . . . " (Quran 47:4).
Yes, kill them until the battle is won, then tie them up, then either ransom them or let them go. Given the armor of the day, perhaps "smiting of the necks" was some of the best advice?

Allah loves those who fight for him: "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure," (Quran 61:4).
Said by every god to its faithful.

Look, I can do the same thing with the Bible. It's easy. Here's one at random:

Jesus says false prophets should be cut apart and burned: "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." (Matthew 7:19)

I didn't even feel the need to suggest that "tree" is any non-Christian.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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25 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2020 :  16:11:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send farrowpledge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by SGunn

The anxiety in America regarding terrorism is perplexing in its indifference concerning firearm homicides is ridiculous.
Which is one of the reasons I asked you why, in your 2013 post, above, you went out of your way to mention the religious roots of Islamic terrorism, but not Christian terrorism.

A question you did not answer. Instead, you ranted about gun culture.

I don't disagree with you about gun culture in the U.S., I just disagree that going off on a tear about it is an answer to the question I asked.

You also said:
Americans killing Americans has nothing to do with religion.
Ha! Tell that one to George Tiller.

No, the vast majority of homicides in the U.S. have nothing to do with religion, but they also have nothing to do with terrorism. Unless you want to assert (for just one example) that every 7-11 holdup gone bad is an act of terrorism. No, your claim in your initial post was about "the influence of Islam in the world" and its relation "to the acts of terrorism seen today," not random gun violence.

Too bad. It has to come up to this situation such as that.
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25 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2020 :  23:06:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send farrowpledge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Books about mental health-related are better.
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