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LyricalReckoner
New Member
USA
21 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2003 : 11:41:43
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There's an old saying: "There are no atheists in foxholes." The idea is that -- once the shooting starts -- everyone is ready to turn to God. Whoever started this saying didn't appreciate that -- once the shooting starts -- it is the desire for survival that consumes a soldier. There is no time for pondering theology, or the meaning of Luke 22, or whether the gods give one hoot about people in foxholes or their causes.
Read all about it:
http://www.misterthorne.org/ESSAYS/atheists_christians.htm
Enjoy!
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2003 : 18:58:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LyricalReckoner
There's an old saying: "There are no atheists in foxholes." The idea is that -- once the shooting starts -- everyone is ready to turn to God. Whoever started this saying didn't appreciate that -- once the shooting starts -- it is the desire for survival that consumes a soldier. There is no time for pondering theology, or the meaning of Luke 22, or whether the gods give one hoot about people in foxholes or their causes.
Read all about it:
http://www.misterthorne.org/ESSAYS/atheists_christians.htm
Enjoy!
But...
There are no foxholes. They're called "two man fighting positions".
When the shooting starts you don't turn to God, you turn to your
buddies, your squad, and your platoon. God isn't going to provide
you with covering fire or keep watch while you grab some sleep or
slap a bandage on your wound. Anyone caught praying rather than
shooting during a firefight will hear about it from the rest of
the platoon.
When I was being processed into the Army they asked me for my
religion to put on my dogtags. The clerk wouldn't accept "None".
He pointed out that if I was dying in a hospital ward I'd surely
want a chaplain to comfort me even if I wasn't religious, so
I said to put down "No Preference". That got abbreviated "No Pref"
on my dogtags, and was frequently misinterpreted as Northern
Prefbyterian. (I am not making this up.) When I tried to explain
that I was an atheist I was generally met with blank stares,
although one guy opined as that might be a worldly type of Amish.
So maybe there are no atheists in foxholes because few soldiers know
what the word means.
-- Henry
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- TW
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2003 : 04:42:19 [Permalink]
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That, "No atheists and so forth" business was started by WWII war coorespondent, Ernie Pyle. I don't know where he got it, or if he came up with it himself.
It's nonsense, of course. Some people have become atheists while in a foxhole.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2003 : 09:06:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
That, "No atheists and so forth" business was started by WWII war coorespondent, Ernie Pyle. I don't know where he got it, or if he came up with it himself.
It's nonsense, of course. Some people have become atheists while in a foxhole.
And some folks have become religious. Any person who is not secure in their religious preference (or lack thereof) will tend to convert to whatever form of philosiphy they find the most comfort in. Combat strips the individual down to the core. Those beliefs nearest their core will stay, the extra stuff falls away. In a firefight, one wants someone whose core belief contains staying around to watch your back while you watch theirs. Religion is a secondary concern for the religious in combat. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2003 : 10:46:54 [Permalink]
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| In the firefights I've been in the only guys you really had to worry about were the ones with "a personal relationship with Jesus." Their basic philosophy seemed to revolve upon relying on Jeus and not themselves. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2003 : 12:16:00 [Permalink]
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tw, you'll get a kick out of this story.
A close friend of mine faced the same problem when he entered the army. They wouldn't accept "Atheist", Agnostic", or "None" for his dog tags. Finally, in a moment of inspiration, he tried "Humanist". They bought it! To this day he has his tags that proclaim him to be an official, born-again Humanist.  |
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2003 : 02:51:41 [Permalink]
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I had them put "Atheist" on my dogtags. Pissed off the guy at CBPO.
Hehe, a friend of mine got a hold of the dog tag machine during an exercise. He made himself up a new set. "Jedi Knight".
That bastard. Why didn't I think of that? |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2003 : 10:16:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa
I had them put "Atheist" on my dogtags. Pissed off the guy at CBPO.
Hehe, a friend of mine got a hold of the dog tag machine during an exercise. He made himself up a new set. "Jedi Knight".
That bastard. Why didn't I think of that?
What would the Jedi Knight chaplain's insignia look like?
The Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and Bhuddist insignia are
at: https://www-perscom.army.mil/TAGD/tioh/branches/chap.htm
Although crossed light sabers might seem appropriate, they
could be a bit too militaristic. Maybe invisible insignia
representing the Force?
Didn't see any dollar sign insignia for Scientology chaplains.
-- Henry |
- TW
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Avenel
Skeptic Friend
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2003 : 10:55:43 [Permalink]
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| Today's San Diego Union-Tribune has an article on the efforts of Joe Beck to get the military to provide non-religious counselors for those serving that are not religious. |
"How many angels can swim on the head of a beer?" - Roger Ramjet |
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Hobbes
New Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 13:46:59 [Permalink]
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| If I'm ever in a foxhole (which I sure hope never happens, because I'm a comm. troop, and if they ever give me a gun, the war is probably almost over, and we're losing) then I sure as shit am not going to be worried about religion, or god, or jesus, or whatever. I'm going to be worried about my chem-gear, the number of bullets I have left to make enemy casualties with, and hoping my buddy is watching where I'm not. The only religious type stuff you're going to hear out of me is "God damn it" when I miss the guy I'm shooting at. |
And Newton said, "y'= lim h->0 of [f(x+h)-f(x)]/[(x+h)-x], thus, Calculus was born, and Newton saw that it was good. |
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