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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2003 : 16:02:15 [Permalink]
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You know there is a movement underway, even as we speak, to change the classification of Chimps & Bonobos from Pan to Homo.
Homo Troglodytes and Homo Paniscus. That should bring up some interesting legal problems |
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I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 22:48:09 [Permalink]
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| i just had sex with a chimp and it isnt pregnant yet. i'll try again later, all in the name of science |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 06:17:22 [Permalink]
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Vegeta said
quote:
Have we observed it happening in nature? There's plenty of examples of micro-evolution, but without evidence of speciation the theory still has holes.
This line of reasoning is so annoying. Of course you are not going to see a completely new species developing in a short period of time. This guy wants to see a group of elephants give birth to a breeding population of winged horses to prove evolution occurs.
I guess by his reasoning nobody should believe in god until they observe him in 'person' performing a miracle.
There has never been a photograph of an electron (nor will there ever be), so I guess electrical therory has holes in it (no pun intended). So go ahead and stick your finger in the light socket.
Has anyone every seen a living giant squid? No. Well then there are living giant squids only dead ones that wash up on shore.
Do you realize that we have not been able to resolve a disk when observing stars. In other words stars when viewed with even the largest telescopes are only points of light. By your reasoning I am sure that the heavens could just be a big black blanket with pin holes in it.
I have never directly observed you - so I do not believe you exist. I refuse to accept the indirect evidence of your typing. It is probably just some computer glitch or bug.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 17:43:55 [Permalink]
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furshur wrote:quote:
Do you realize that we have not been able to resolve a disk when observing stars.
Actually, Betelgeuse was imaged eight years ago, but your other five points are good ones. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 05:59:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually, Betelgeuse was imaged eight years ago, but your other five points are good ones.
I recall reading about beetlejuice but I thought that what was seen was just some darkening around the outside of the image. This darkening gave some indication that the actual star was being resolved.
I figured this was due to some fraying of the hole cut in the cloth draped across the heavens. But to limit controversy I will withdraw that point.
Thanks. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 07:24:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Have we observed it happening in nature? There's plenty of examples of micro-evolution, but without evidence of speciation the theory still has holes.
Say Vegeta,
If you're still in the neighborhood, check this out.
http://www.gene.ch/gentech/1998/Jul-Sep/msg00188.html
The article is 5 years old, but it should help answer your question.
In a nutshell, mosquitoes followed the humans underground when the London subway was built a century ago. They became so acclimated to living underground, both in diet and environment, that they could no longer breed with the same mosquito species that lived above ground.
(:raig |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 20:02:54 [Permalink]
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furshur wrote:quote:
I recall reading about beetlejuice but I thought that what was seen was just some darkening around the outside of the image. This darkening gave some indication that the actual star was being resolved.
If you look at the JPEGs offered at the link I supplied, you can see the pixels in the image. Those aren't JPEG artifacts, but come from the original itself. I count 40-something pixels across the face of the star.quote:
I figured this was due to some fraying of the hole cut in the cloth draped across the heavens.
No, it's actually God's Giant Eyeball!  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2003 : 15:39:15 [Permalink]
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| you shouldnt get so agravated furshur, I believe in evolution, I just wanted to know if macroevolution had been documented in human history |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2003 : 10:03:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
you shouldnt get so agravated furshur, I believe in evolution, I just wanted to know if macroevolution had been documented in human history
OK, I'll bite. Just what exactly is 'macro-evolution'?
Why do you say you 'believe' in evolution like it is something that must be taken on faith. It seems like you need to have direct visual evidence of an event happening to accept it as fact. I do not 'believe' in evolution, I have examined the evidence and accepted the fact of evolution.
There have been measurements taken of the Andes mountains rising a few inches/year - micromountain building. But no one has seen over the written history of man the mountains form - macromountain building. I still 'believe' in mountain formation.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2003 : 12:44:34 [Permalink]
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I'm obviously gonna put my foot in my mouth somehow if i try to explain it, so I suggest you read this
http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0737_Macro_vs._Micro_Evol.html |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2003 : 12:46:17 [Permalink]
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| BTW I dont agree with this guys stance on the matter, but he explains the argument pretty well |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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Avenel
Skeptic Friend
USA
60 Posts |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2003 : 13:39:57 [Permalink]
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yeah i know that now, just trying to answer furshur's qustion 'what exactly is macro-evolution?' Which I think he knew the answer to anyway.
BTW I never said I needed to see something to before I believed in it (there goes that word again), I was saying that if an instance of speciation occured that we could observe, (ie. not in the fossil record) that would be much better evidence, and much more difficult to argue against.
For example discussions I've had with people have argued furiously that each stage between reptile and bird is a seperate creation in its own right, and I even saw some hick 'scientist' on TV saying "they just stuck a bunch of bones together."
I obviously don't expect to see cows growing wings or anything, but thanks to some of the more helpful members here I can now cite a few cases where simple organisms have been bred to create new unique species. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2003 : 05:12:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
I obviously don't expect to see cows growing wings or anything, but thanks to some of the more helpful members here I can now cite a few cases where simple organisms have been bred to create new unique species.
As far as having some 'examples' these are worthless. Just ask the people you are having the discussions with what evidence it would take to convince them that evolution has and is occuring. They will tell you that there is no evidence strong enough to convince them. I would bet my life that if a whole group of cows were born with wings and they became a seperate breeding population this would not be evidence enough for them. The creationists would say this was an isolated occurrance, a goverment conspiracy or a miracle of God. Creationism is based on faith therefore facts to the contrary will not change their minds.
By the way if there was any real evidence to counter evolution I would dump evolution. Human evidence in conjunction with dinosuars or trilobites found in rock layer above dinosuar and evolution would be blown out of the water for the vast majority of scientist. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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