|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2004 : 06:30:32 [Permalink]
|
While I'm in no way impuning your wife's character or intentions, rvarno, I'm wondering about her educational background. What are the qualifications for becoming a certified Christian counselor? What training does she have? For example, a psychiatrist is also an MD and can prescribe medicine. An MSW has completed a Master's program.
Thanks for answering my question about inheritance. I can wear my heirloom jewelry now without fear. 
It's a funny thing, though, rvarno. Some of the toxic behavior in my family was done in the name of religion. (I can explain more about that, if you like. Or you can stop by a Jehova Witness website, or read about what was done to Native Americans by so-called Christians for a generic version).
Further, any person who believes they have The Truth arouses my suspicions. None of us has the answers to the mysteries of the universe; we have only what we believe and what works for us.
It's a shame you apparently just came to prosteltyze and run, rather than to dialogue. I hope you come back. |
 |
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9698 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 07:51:57 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by rvarnoI have personally seen blind eyes opened, deaf ears opened, lame people get up and walk, demons cast out and the dead raised back to life.
If someone who was dead was raised back to life by other means than what is usually applied at places ER and ambulances, I wonder why we haven't heard about it. A lot of questions comes to the inquisitive mind:
How long has this person been dead?
Who did pronounce him dead (did he have the authority to make such a call)?
What was the circumstance of the resurrection? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 08:04:08 [Permalink]
|
| Dr. Mabuse, you forgot another question: when is the Nobel Prize in medicine for raising the dead going to be handed out? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 08:27:11 [Permalink]
|
I can go hang out a sign in front of my house tomorrow that says I'm a "spiritual counselor" or "Christian counselor." It means nothing, and I have to have no qualifications at all.
In fact, if anyone needs atheistic counseling, I'm an ordained minister and can counsel anyone. I'll give members of this board a big discount, too! |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2004 : 09:20:07 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by rvarno
Ok, folks, as much as I am enjoying this, this will probably be my last post here for awhile as things are getting pretty busy. I will try to address what I can at this time.
1. My reasons for posting here are twofold. One, because this topic will come up when someone does a web search on Freedom Keepers, and I wanted to make sure that the full picture was presented. Two, because it has proven to be the most open and honest exchange I have
been able to have with my brother in quite some time. (You say you are concerned about me being off the deep end, I would have to say I
am extremely concerned about the fact you have chosen to pursue witchcraft/wicca in light of what the Bible says about it)
And just what does the Bible say about Wicca? Although you believe it is linked with the witchcraft of old, it isn't. There are major differences in practice and intent as well as number of dieties.
quote:
2. Before I go any further, I feel it necessary to state that everything I believe and know to be true is based on the Bible. The proof for everything I have to say comes from His Word. I'm not talking about choosing a religion here, I'm talking about truth and proof. (I will address this later in this post) God has proven Himself to me in very real way since I have made the commitment to serve Him. I am a different person since I was born again. I have seen God be true to His Word. I have personally seen blind eyes opened, deaf ears opened, lame people get up and walk, demons cast out and the dead raised back to life. God loves you. You are very valuable to Him. He paid the ultimate price so He could have a relationship with you. If you surrender your life to Him, and make Jesus the Lord of your life, He will change you, you will become a new person. Now, if you refuse to accept that the Bible is the Word of God, then the rest of this post may seem like foolishness to you. I hope that is not the case. Here goes.
Whether one believes the Bible to be the word of God is immaterial to the syntatical context of the Bible. I find your assertations to be unsupported by the Bible.
quote:
quote:
I find your particular brand of spiritual 'guidance' particularly scary. Do you have training and certification as a counselor? If not,
then marketing yourself as someone who can treat addiction, heal emotional trauma, or treat mental illness is charlatanism, pure and
simple.
Yes. My wife, who does most all of the counseling, is a certified Christian counselor, registered with the American Association of Christian Counselors. (She is also a beautiful, wonderful, intelligent, God fearing woman who has dedicated her life to helping broken, hurting people get free from the bondage and torment of past abandonment and abuse through the power of Jesus Christ)
Furthermore, Jesus is the one who does the healing. We work in conjunction with counselors and physicians to bring wholeness to the person. We do not instruct people to alter their medication without the supervision and knowledge of their physician. I would like to note, though, that many people that have received ministry have been able (under the care of their physician to dramatically reduce or even stop taking anti-depressants, anti-anger medication and other mind and mood altering meds.
Here's the clinical training required to be a certified Christian counselor. None.
Becoming one requires only that one be "trained" in the proper use of the Bible. From an interpretation which is unique to Evangelical fundamentalism. Since this is a fringe denomination and the certification is used only as a fallacious appeal to authority.
http://www.metanoia.org/imhs/xian.htm
quote:
quote:
You didn't answer my question. I'm still curious as to whether Satan is lurking in my inheritance.
Generational inheritance deals more with things passed through the bloodline, rather than attachment to a particular object. (Although I have seen it happen when that object was used as a part of ritual magic or other occult activity) What we are talking about here is stuff that goes down through the family line. (Alcoholism, incest, anger, etc...)
Alcoholism is a genetic pre-disposition. Incest and how one deals with anger is usually learned from one's parents. A supernatural force is unwarranted for this to occur.
http://www.healthrecovery.com/alcoholism_genetic_link.html
quote:
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
quote:
Excorcisms as "mainstream"? I don't think so. Since the age of modern medicine (Approx 1880), excorcisms have been extremely rare. Most
denominations reject the idea that demons cause illness. Although they do work against evil. (A concept you refer to as Satan.)
Mainstream to the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles, not to today's church. Read the gospels. Jesus dealt with the demonic just as much as He dealt with sickness and disease. We don't make the Bible fit our current circumstances, we try to get back to what it says that the New Testament Church is to do in the first place.
So tell me, how does practices common 2000 years ago equate to the current church. When using the word "mainstream" with a church or dogma of today, that church or dogma must be compared against it's peers, not historical models. By this same leap of logic, the usage of leeches in a medical setting must be mainstream today because it was in such wide usage in the 1800's. This example shows how false that reasoning is.
quote:
quote:
But yet you forget this little jewel.
Romans 10:12-13
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
And according to the d |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 01/26/2005 08:38:03 |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 08:59:04 [Permalink]
|
| FreedomKeepers.net is now off the air. The host claims it's temporary. |
|
|
|
freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 05:03:41 [Permalink]
|
to whom ever has been reading this between the brothers,one trying to tell where he was changed and the other is debating his beliefs,Abviously God is working here anyway cause Rich is telling him the truth and that is where satan comes in to steal the words and make it seem to so confusing, God is not a God of Confusion!
If you really believe in God he will be real to you and you will have no doubts...
I know God works in people in different ways and reveals Himself the way he needs to but the Word of God will never change, it says what it says, and people through the years have interpreted it in different ways to suit their own ways to live. I on the other hand have never had the privalage to know God until a little over a year ago, and I know freedom keepers are only helping people because they Love God and are trying to do what Jesus wants them to do and they are truly blessed by helping so many lost people who don't know where to turn, especially when they don't know God has power like he does..I should know I am one of them.. I am beginning to understand more everyday by what the Bible says, How people will be hungry for truth and I for one can't understand sometimes Why don't you dig deep inside and find the real reason you want to believe in truth and God in the first place.. Valiant...if you believe in God and love Him you should do what I did and stop the games and ask God to make HImself real to you the real way he is intended to be in your life...I was lied to all my life about God and now no one will take back what I fought to know and all the bad that happened to me makes me appreciate God more, cause he was there all that time I screamed inside for someone to hear me, he did hear me this is why I am writing today... I am a miracle that survived satans hold that God does have the power to change even the worst. I have already touched the bowels of Hell and I was rescued to be a example of what God can do... And alsoGod chooses us we don't choose Him, there are some whom have not heard about Him yet but they will... So many years have gone by and time is running out.. I am so glad I was found. Bible says "Those whom suffer much, WILL rejoice much"Compared to where I was Satan is a LIAR! And I know his tricks cause I was subjected to him for so long that I know God cannot reside where satan does...He can't he is holy..I am now Free to Be Me. And everyday I pray I can give back or help someone who was like me. No one can tell me God isn't real... |
freeotbe |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 07:40:57 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
to whom ever has been reading this between the brothers,one trying to tell where he was changed and the other is debating his beliefs,Abviously God is working here anyway cause Rich is telling him the truth and that is where satan comes in to steal the words and make it seem to so confusing, God is not a God of Confusion!
If you really believe in God he will be real to you and you will have no doubts...
Let's see. I have no doubts. Again, your premise that I do not follow the same God continues to be unsupported. Rich is voicing his unBiblical opinion based on the dogma of the branch of Christianity he has chosen to follow.
quote:
I know God works in people in different ways and reveals Himself the way he needs to but the Word of God will never change, it says what it says, and people through the years have interpreted it in different ways to suit their own ways to live. I on the other hand have never had the privalage to know God until a little over a year ago, and I know freedom keepers are only helping people because they Love God and are trying to do what Jesus wants them to do and they are truly blessed by helping so many lost people who don't know where to turn, especially when they don't know God has power like he does..I should know I am one of them.. I am beginning to understand more everyday by what the Bible says, How people will be hungry for truth and I for one can't understand sometimes Why don't you dig deep inside and find the real reason you want to believe in truth and God in the first place.. Valiant...if you believe in God and love Him you should do what I did and stop the games and ask God to make HImself real to you the real way he is intended to be in your life.
I'm not playing games. Your arrogance to presume to tell me what I believe and what I need to do is appalling. God is real to me. I have dug very deeply inside of myself and found God. Your expression of faith is noted. It is not agreed to.
quote:
..I was lied to all my life about God and now no one will take back what I fought to know and all the bad that happened to me makes me appreciate God more, cause he was there all that time I screamed inside for someone to hear me, he did hear me this is why I am writing today... I am a miracle that survived satans hold that God does have the power to change even the worst. I have already touched the bowels of Hell and I was rescued to be a example of what God can do.
In another thread, you have failed to show how anything you experienced was any way linked to Satan. You have been through a lot of really horrendeous things. I still urge you to seek professional psychiatric help in dealing with what happened to you instead of blaming it on Satan based on the opinion of people who have exactly zero medical and psychological training.
quote:
.. And alsoGod chooses us we don't choose Him, there are some whom have not heard about Him yet but they will... So many years have gone by and time is running out.. I am so glad I was found. Bible says "Those whom suffer much, WILL rejoice much"Compared to where I was Satan is a LIAR! And I know his tricks cause I was subjected to him for so long that I know God cannot reside where satan does...He can't he is holy..I am now Free to Be Me. And everyday I pray I can give back or help someone who was like me. No one can tell me God isn't real...
No one is telling you that God isn't real. It is logically impossible to prove a negative.
[edited to clarify meaning]
|
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 03/04/2004 09:23:56 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 08:15:22 [Permalink]
|
freetobe wrote:quote:
...Rich is telling him the truth...
One just has to ask: on what objective basis can one tell that it is Rich who's telling the truth, and not Valiant Dancer? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
freetobe
New Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 17:50:40 [Permalink]
|
| I just can't understand why you don't want to accept the fact that satan is the bad guy, are you defending him? and if you are as you say you are you should know who is the one who doesn't want you to know the real truth....And I don't have to prove myself to you I can't make you believe what i believe or even understand me And I don't need a phychiatrist to tell me what I already know,,all they do is try to put a label on you cause they don't know what else to do but talk God is already replacing the sadness with peace and a real reason to be all I can be for Him. I just think you and you brother should love each other unconditionally and try to understand he loves you and cares about you. And also the other side doesn't work. You never know when it will be your turn to exit this place, you should want to be with him all you can.. I would love to have a brother or sister to love. |
freeotbe |
|
|
|
Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 18:12:46 [Permalink]
|
Freetobe, I'm not defending Satan. I just don't believe there is a Satan.
I do believe that evil exists, though. Anyone who would hurt an animal or a child is evil in my book. Evil can exist within a religion or outside a religion, with or without the concept of Satan.
The people who hurt you were evil.
Take good care of yourself, okay?
Renae |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 07:06:48 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by freetobe
I just can't understand why you don't want to accept the fact that satan is the bad guy, are you defending him?
I'm not defending evil nor Satan. Please point out where I am. So far, I have said that you have provided zero evidence for what happened to you being the work of Satanic Ritual Abuse and that my brother and his wife have zero medical and psychological training. As such, they are unqualified to make an analysis of someones mental state. Again, claiming Satan had anything to do with your experiences based on the opinion of an unqualified person is logically invalid.
quote:
and if you are as you say you are you should know who is the one who doesn't want you to know the real truth....And I don't have to prove myself to you I can't make you believe what i believe or even understand me And I don't need a phychiatrist to tell me what I already know,,all they do is try to put a label on you cause they don't know what else to do but talk God is already replacing the sadness with peace and a real reason to be all I can be for Him.
Rejection of professional psychiatric help in favor of faith is logically unsound. Oftentimes, these "counselors" do more harm than good. While placing a temporary band-aid on the emotional issues, they gain some temporary peace.
quote:
I just think you and you brother should love each other unconditionally and try to understand he loves you and cares about you.
Just what makes you think I don't love my brother?
quote:
And also the other side doesn't work. You never know when it will be your turn to exit this place, you should want to be with him all you can.. I would love to have a brother or sister to love.
What other side are you talking about? I'm on the side of the one and only God. Same place you are. Your unBiblical opinion is duely noted. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 09:54:01 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
FreedomKeepers.net is now off the air. The host claims it's temporary.
It was temporary. They're back. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
