Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Creation/Evolution
 Tooth and Claw, Blood and Bone!
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2004 :  08:36:01  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I wasn't sure how I wanted to do this, so I think I'll do it in two pieces. Here's the first, by Dr. Carl Wieland, of Answers in Genesis. Dr. Wieland in an MD and the CEO of the ministry, and writes a lot on many many subjects from a YEC point of view. The artical concerns itself with 'fresh' dinosaur blood.

I'm sure we all remember the noise generated some years ago over the T-rex bone that seemed to contain some red blood cells. Well, here 'tis in all it's gore-y (anything for a pun!)

quote:
The story starts with a beautifully preserved T. rex skeleton unearthed in the United States in 1990. When the bones were brought to the Montana State University's lab, it was noticed that ‘some parts deep inside the long bone of the leg had not completely fossilized.' To find unfossilized dinosaur bone is already an indication more consistent with a young age for the fossils (see box).



http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4232cen_s1997.asp

This is an interesting read in spite of some misrepresentations. I'll let y'all pick at it a while before I post the rebuttal. It too, is a good read, and as we have some young gentlemen of a Creationist bent amongst us, It'll be a good comparison for them.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend

67 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2004 :  20:17:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ivanisavich a Private Message
Well...no extensive comments from me....but I'm skeptical of this one and think that there's probably more to the story.
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2004 :  02:52:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Erm, yes, quite a bit more.

I'm doing this to point out how some Creationist organizations work, especally those that claim to do science. I'm not picking on AiG particularly (oh but I am, I am!) -- they just had the misfortune to be the first I stumbled across that I could easily reference.

As there's not much action on the thread, sometime today or maybe tomorrow I'll post "The rest of the story," as the old horse-lover said.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

ivanisavich
Skeptic Friend

67 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2004 :  06:21:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ivanisavich a Private Message
Well, I'm waiting then...

....

...so exciting!
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2004 :  07:23:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
"K, here it comes:

This is written by Gary Hurd Ph.D., a paleontologist. It is well thought out and heavily referenced. One would think that it would put paid to the 'fresh' blood and 'unfossilized' dino bones booshwa, but I fear that just ain't happenin'. For good or ill, faith will conquer fact in the eyes of many.
quote:
In the case of the dinosaur "red blood cell" argument aggressively promoted by Dr Carl Wieland, CEO of Answers in Genesis Ministry, Australia there is an active denial of fact that is astounding. Wieland has particularly focused on popular magazine stories, and short news items concerning the graduate school research by Mary H. Schweitzer on the organic residues from a single Tyrannosaurus rex bone. However, his misrepresentations have gained wide dispersal, and presumably acceptance within creationism. They have even been presented publicly to school boards in the United States as "scientific proof" of a 6,000-year-old Earth, and reason to replace science education with supernaturalism. We will leave the dating issues for a future analysis where we may examine the related creationist claims that the survival of other biomolecules, such as the bone protein osteocalcin, demonstrate that the Universe is young. Instead, we focus below on the observation that creationists have not even correctly read or represented the scientific literature concerning the results from Schweitzer and colleagues' research.



http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/YEC_and_dino_blood.htm

I was going to go on at greater length myself; rabid fulminations about the common misrepresentations that these organizations put forth in favor of young earth creationism, but decided that Dr. Hurd is doing it way better than I ever could, and without resorting to profanity.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2004 :  09:12:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
Funny. We sometimes call the "Institute for Creation Research" "The Institute for Quotation Research." The ICR even puts out a book called "In Their Own Words," a collection of quotes from scientists which, when taken out of there original context, seem to debunk evolution. The ICR sells this book so that creationists will have "a powerful tool when arguing with evolutionists." Of course, this couldn't be further from the truth. Those of us who know something about evolution almost immediately recognize the authors of these quotes and can usually infer the correct context, removed or not. What the book actually does is reinforce the thinking of creationists. The book is preaching to the choir. And, there is no regard for how old the quotes are either. Fifty year old quotes are common.

Taking quotes out of there context is lying. Plain and simple. Continuing to publish lies after they have been exposed as such, sometimes by the very people that they quoted, is shameless lying.

Morris, Gish, Hovind, Wieland and the rest of these men of God are a pack of liars.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25996 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2004 :  10:21:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Well, back when you first posted the No Answers in Genesis link, the server was down (or some other such problem was occuring). Today, I find that talk.origins has posted a copy of Dino-blood and the Young Earth (and I find the No Answers site to be back up).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.25 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000