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hippy4christ
Skeptic Friend

193 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2004 :  11:52:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send hippy4christ a Private Message
Ricky, Skyhawk:

You have begun to equate philosophy with science. Yes, mathematics can accurately predict the motion of gravity, and we have confirmed many mathmetical theories about how things move by conducting experiments and recording the results. Unfortunately for you, no experiment has ever been made in which something appears from nothing and this something forms its own rules that it works by.

You say that, mathmetically, the Big Bang was a mathmetical referance point from which you can work. But that's not the question, the question is, what is it in actuality? Is it actually matter or not? If you say that you don't know, fine, that means that you do not have a theory, with repeatable results, that explains how the universe actually arrived at its present state. Yes, mathmatics written down on paper can describe the workings of the universe, but mathmatical concepts cannot turn into physical matter.

Therefore: 1) If mathmetics in and of themselves are concepts and descriptions of the universe, and 2) if the Big Bang is a mathmetical reference point, then 3) the Big Bang did not actually exist, therefore 4) there is no theory which actually explains the physical origins of the universe.

I'm starting a different thread in the Creation/Evolution file, please come.

Hippy

P.S. I'm 18.

Do you remember the scientific model? You make a hypothesis, you make an experiment that tests that hypothesis, and if you get

Faith is believing what you are told, whether it's by a priest or a scientist. A person's scientific beliefs are ones based on personal observation and experimentation.

Lists of Logical Fallacies
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2004 :  12:54:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Therefore: 1) If mathematics in and of themselves are concepts and descriptions of the universe, and 2) if the Big Bang is a mathematical reference point, then 3) the Big Bang did not actually exist, therefore 4) there is no theory which actually explains the physical origins of the universe.



Points 1 and 3 disagree. If mathematics are concepts and descriptions of the universe, and if the Big Bang is a mathematical reference point, then the Big Bang did actually exist, because it is a description of the universe.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2004 :  14:54:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Hippy,
The big bang is a theory that states that the universe as we see it today was originally compressed into an unbelievably dense and hot area. A cosmic explosion caused the expansion of the universe. This expansion has been observed and based on the BB theory many predictions have been made and found to be true.
The theory does not address what was there before the big bang. The theory does not address where matter (or energy) came from.

Maybe God lit the fuse - I don't know, but even that would still not invalidate the theory.

If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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