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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2004 : 21:54:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Ha ha, I'll tell you a story:
On a ship I was aboard, one of the Enginemen was in something of a fued with the Hospital Corpsman. One day, when we all had to get flu shots, the snipe was just a couple of places ahead of me in line.
The way it was done then, Doc used a huge syringe, big enough for a lot of doses, and changed the needle each time from a quanity stuck in a steril, cotton-packed bag. The whole thing was like an assembly line.
....
If that's a true story I hope you've been screened for hepatitis B and C. Changing the needle and not the syringe wouldn't stop blood contamination at all. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 22:02:33 [Permalink]
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This sentence is absurd:quote:
Until the coming of AIDS, leprosy was the most feared of infectious diseases.
Past misinformation about leprosy is one thing, but this is plain stupid.
I would say historically, TB was certainly more feared than leprosy, long before HIV. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 03:15:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Ha ha, I'll tell you a story:
On a ship I was aboard, one of the Enginemen was in something of a fued with the Hospital Corpsman. One day, when we all had to get flu shots, the snipe was just a couple of places ahead of me in line.
The way it was done then, Doc used a huge syringe, big enough for a lot of doses, and changed the needle each time from a quanity stuck in a steril, cotton-packed bag. The whole thing was like an assembly line.
....
If that's a true story I hope you've been screened for hepatitis B and C. Changing the needle and not the syringe wouldn't stop blood contamination at all.
The story is indeed true. That was the way it was done in the late '50s. Toward the middle of the '60s, a pnumatic device (which I hated even more than the needle) was beginning to replace the needle for mass inoculations.
quote:
This sentence is absurd:
quote:
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Until the coming of AIDS, leprosy was the most feared of infectious diseases.
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Past misinformation about leprosy is one thing, but this is plain stupid.
I would say historically, TB was certainly more feared than leprosy, long before HIV.
I dunno. Feared by whom?
Only until fairly recently was either leprosy or 'consumption' even treatable by anything but folklore and prayer. Here, we are dealing with the popular conceptions, which are seldom reasonable and rarely well-informed. TB didn't change the outward appearance of it's victims much, while leprosy often did, and radically. And leprosy had the big rep well before TB was even known. Curse of God and all that booshwa.
Even today, while both diseases are treatable, my personal guess would be that leprosy still outranks TB in the popular view, certainly in places like Bangladesh, where it is very common.
I think the sentence should stand as read.
I hope to have Chapter Two up this afternoon or failing that, tomorrow morning. I think you'll like it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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AutomaticSlim
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 04:27:28 [Permalink]
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Greetings to the forum. I'm a long time reader but just registered today.
One small fact I'd like to add about rabies. While adult dogs can contract rabies, I've been told that puppies are immune for a time for some reason. Indeed, rabies vaccines are not administered to puppies right away after they are born like the parvovirus vaccine is, for example. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 05:00:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by AutomaticSlim
Greetings to the forum. I'm a long time reader but just registered today.
One small fact I'd like to add about rabies. While adult dogs can contract rabies, I've been told that puppies are immune for a time for some reason. Indeed, rabies vaccines are not administered to puppies right away after they are born like the parvovirus vaccine is, for example.
Welcome AutomaticSlim!
I found your claim interesting, and a web search revealed that this is because of maternal immunity (which renders vaccination useless), and that puppies in rabies infected areas should be vaccinated after 3-4 months, when the maternal antibodies wanes.
I guess the mother must be vaccinated to give the puppies protection.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 09:02:14 [Permalink]
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Interesting, Slim and Star. I should have looked into that. But, these things are so smegging long to start with.....
I've finished Chapter Two on Leprosy and have only to smooth it out a bit. It'll be up this evening.
Tell y'all the truth, brothers and sisters, I am surely tired of rabies and leprosy, and rabid lepers. 
Somebody else needs to get in on this. Besides, I've gotten an assignment that will briefly take me and my keyboard away.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:48:36 [Permalink]
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Maternal antibody with rabies is correct as far as timing of the vaccine goes, but it doesn't reliably protect the puppy. A puppy or kitten can both be a source of rabies if they contract it. The thing is, they aren't exposed in most domestic situations. A bite by a ferral cat would require rabies PEP if the cat could not be tested, so the same is true for a ferral kitten.
As to the TB fear, filthy, your choosen criteria, disfigurement, as the reason for MOST fear is shortsighted. TB meant being taken away and being locked up in the USA, where as leprosy was uncommon so it didn't occupy much time in persons' worst fears. Leprosy might have caused MOST fear in certain localities but TB has been a worldwide epidemic for a thousand years.
Cholera and Plague epidemics and the 1918 flu pandemic would have been terribly feared when the risk was present. And don't forget smallpox. Lots of diseases cause disfigurement besides leprosy. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 14:29:08 [Permalink]
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Entirely true, but leprosy had, and I'm sure still has, religion. When was that ever reasonable? In days of yore, a leper was a shambling horror that was cursed by the All-Freakin'-Mighty.
Leprosy has never been a plague. Indeed, when you figure the number of cases per segment of the population, you wonder what all the shouting's about. It looks more like bad luck than any sort of an epidemic. And perhaps therein lies the reason: no one else in the community is so afflicted, so surely the leper's immorality has placed the anger of God upon him.
The fear might be irrational, but it's always been there. Another odd quirk of sapience, methinks.
But, we pick the nit and the little bastard's bled enough. Chapter Two in a couple of hours. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 17:01:12 [Permalink]
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Chapter Two of Perhaps Two
In One, there was of necessity, a lot of cut & paste. Sorry ‘bout that; couldn't be helped. There was no room for the words of history and mine own as well. And I still didn't cover all I'd liked to have. Alas, little has changed here in Two.
Now, where were we...... ah yes. The nine-banded armadillo, that odd, funny little animal and potential Savior of the Leper.
First, briefly, a little natural history:
This animal is native to South America and Mexico, and is known to have made it into the southern US by both migration and importation, this latter being escapees in the south east. The two populations are thought to have merged as they their ranges extended.
quote:
The nine banded armadillo at this moment inhabits eight states in the U.S. – Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, and Georgia (Smith, 1984). Under good conditions, the nine-banded armadillo may increase its range by a few hundred square miles in one year (Smith, 1984). It is known that the colonization of the nine-banded armadillo was a slow and natural process in Louisiana, Southern Arkansas, and eastern Oklahoma as opposed to a human dispersal and/or escaping from captivity in Florida, Georgia, and Alabama (Smith, 1984).
The first recorded nine-banded armadillo seen in the U.S was in Texas by two men, Audubon & Bachman, in 1849. However, there is the possibility that these armadillos were introduced prior to that due to reports in the 1830's and 1840's sighting nine-banded armadillos east of the Rio Grande (Smith, 1984). The entry zone of the nine-banded armadillo into Texas is considered to be between Brownsville and Rio Grande City (Smith, 1984), which led the armadillo to move northward and extend southeast into favorable conditions. By the 1880's, nine-banded armadillos were extending their habitats into the western portion of Texas and by the mid-1900's these creatures had occupied two-thirds of Texas (Smith, 1984)
By the 1930's, the nine-banded armadillo had spread to Mississippi, Louisiana (1916/1917), Arkansas (1921), and in Oklahoma (1936), which have similar climatic and topographic features and helped the nine-banded armadillo to thrive (Smith, 1984). By 1970, the population of nine-banded armadillos had increased dramatically, occupying most of southern Arkansas and two-thirds of Oklahoma, except for in the arid portions of these states (Smith, 1984).
The nine-banded armadillo belongs to the order Xenarthra and it's closest relatives, beyond three other armadillo species, are the sloths and anteaters. They feed on insects and other arthropods, and the occasional small snake or frog. And fire ants are a favored, spicy snack -- you‘ve gotta love ‘em if only for that! They are prodigious burrowers.
And, they are as susceptible to leprosy as ourselves, one of the very rare animals known to be thus.
Leprosy research was once very difficult due to not being able to keep the bacilli alive in the lab. In the ‘60s, it was discovered that the armadillos could carry it, becoming in effect, living petri dishes.
It was also discovered that leprosy was endemic in wild populations. Some people who handled a lot of armadillos, meat hunters and those that made curios from armadillo shells, showed up with it, leading scientists to easily add 1+1 and, after a little field work, come up with results.
The leprosy bacilli usually resides in the cooler parts of the body -- ears, nose and lips, fingers and toes, skin, and so forth. The body temperature of an armadillo is considerably lower than our own, so the disease permeates it's entire body, including organs that it never touches in ourselves. This is fatal to the animal in a relatively short time.
So, you ask, |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/20/2004 03:29:54 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 23:54:54 [Permalink]
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Interesting!
I always suspected armadillos to be in league with the Devil  |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2004 : 08:31:42 [Permalink]
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Web site convergence!
Psoriasis was once known as "white leprosy." And some folks have claimed that Robert the Bruce had psoriasis.
(But, with such shining examples of psoriasis victims as Abimael Guzman, Art Garfunkel, Jerry "the Beaver" Mathers, Nabokov, Ken Starr and Stalin, we're okay with giving up "Bob the B.") |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2004 : 03:38:47 [Permalink]
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I wonder that someone has not done Yersinia pestis yet. The Bubonic Plague in Europe was not just a disease, but a social force that changed the face of the continent in the mid 14th century. It's a fascinating event in history and the disease makes rabies look like a head cold.
I've just finished an essay on it as a contribution to an upcoming book, and would need permission to put it here. The research was highly rewarding.
Anybody want to take a crack at it?
Edited 'cause I've done nothing but reed and rite for the last, few days and my speling is wore out. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/23/2004 03:44:16 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2004 : 03:33:30 [Permalink]
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I thought I might reveve this thread, if only to get away from fungoid, political jungle-rot for a while. This is the plague essay I screeved for Kerry Gillette-Basnight's up-coming book: History of the Gillette Family.
Posted in it's entirily, by permission:
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The Conquest of Europe
“Once there was a miller,
A jolly miller was he......
He looked beneath his pillow,
and there he found a flea........” -- Source unknown.
In October of 1347, a small, Genoese merchant fleet hauled in at Medina, Sicily, fresh from a voyage to the Black Sea, a main route for trade with China. It's crews were infected with the bacterium Yersinia pestis, the Black Plague. The ships were manned by sailors dead and dying in the horrible fashion unique to a virulent disease that the Sicilians had never before seen. This gruesome incident rang the first of the death knells for between one third to one half of the population of Europe and was the direct cause of the greatest, most sudden, social change that continent and it's adjacent isles, and indeed the world, has ever known.
The ships were driven out of Medina by a frightened populace, but it was too late even before the first mooring line was cast off. Plague had come to Genoa. The fleet sought harbor elsewhere and it's ghastly stowaway scattered yet farther. Plague soon roared across the lands, an unstoppable leviathan devouring all in it's path. Lord and serf, priest and reprobate, all were fodder in the basilisk eye of this monstrous force.
And it's such a little thing, far smaller than anyone of the times could even conceive; indeed, a multitude could be comfortably accommodated in the gut of a mere flea; a vast host in the bloodstream of a rat. So, let us take a brief look at this minute destroyer of elder societies and builder of mighty nations.
Thought to have originated in the Orient, Y. pestis is now endemic in rodent populations throughout most of the world. It's vectors are usually fleas that might leave a dead animal to feed upon a live one, or perhaps get scratched off and, unable to return, and must seek another food source. Of course, it's new host quickly becomes hearth and home to the rapidly reproducing bacilli and thus, it spreads like, as it were, the plague.
Today, plague is not much of a problem for most of the world (parts of Africa et al. excepted) due directly to higher standards of hygiene. For example, the human flea Pulex irritans has become something of a rarity in much of the world. But at the time of the Black Death, most people were all but walking zoological gardens. Flea and louse infestations were common in both persons and their dwellings, as well as other exoparasites such as mites and bedbugs. Thus, the conquest of Europe by plague was so very easy.
The untreated mortality rates for plague are horrendous. Bubonic, the most common and actually the mildest form, has a rate of somewhere around seventy percent. This is the nominate form, the one that swells the lymph nodes in the neck, armpits and groin, producing grotesque, purple bubos. The victim will run a fever of well over 100 degrees, be nauseous and suffer from diarrhea, and soon delirious and bed-ridden. Large, horrid, black blotches appear over the sufferer's body. Death, in only a few days or less, is from suffocation.
If the infection should go pneumonic, the mortality rate shoots up into the ninety percentages. Here, it directly wrecks the lungs. The victim has the same, raging temperatures and coughs up bloody sputum. Death is ultimately and mercifully quick from suffocation. This form of plague can be passed from person to person without an intermediate vector.
Septicemic plague is a quite rare form of the disease. It's rarity is fortunate, because it's victims are surely doomed. It's mortality rate is virtually everyone who is infected and even today, there is no tr |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2004 : 10:39:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Leprosy was once a widespread disease but is now generally classified as a tropical disease, with the larger numbers of cases concentrated in Brazil, India, Nigeria, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Myanmar.
Funny, I never heard of my country having a significant amount of people with leprosy, although I do admit they've shown a lot of campaigns about it the past few months.
I've never seen anything about 14 rabies victims, but I might be just uninformed. If someone knows about this, care to inform?
Now, here's something juicy: many, many diseases considered erradicated are plaguing the tribes and poor populations that dwell in the Amazon forests. My cousin worked as a doctor there, and man, he was brave. The stories he's told us are terrifying. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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