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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2004 :  05:31:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Verlich statements:

quote:
The God that made the atom and the electrons and protons that orbit it.

So the nucleus of an atom is just neutrons???
quote:
Where the hell are these 3.5 billion year old fossils and why are they fully formed?

First you say the fossils don't exist, and then inexplicably you admit they exist but question why they are fully formed. ???
Here is a site that shows the fully formed bacteria from ~3.5 billion years ago.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/cyanofr.html
quote:
http://www.scienceyear.com/wired/index.html?page=/wired/facts/extreme.html

Deny that my radical super novas...

Deny what???? This site looks OK to me.

Isn't about time to add some more comments to your signature?



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26015 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2004 :  13:05:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
verlch wrote:
quote:
http://www.scienceyear.com/wired/index.html?page=/wired/facts/extreme.html

Deny that my radical super novas...
Indeed, as furshur asked, "deny what?" The page has a bunch of facts written on it. None of those facts conflict with evolutionary theory, Big Bang theory, or anything else...

...except perhaps the Bible. After all, one interpretation of the Bible says that the heavens are fixed and unchanging. Supernovas really put the lie to that one.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  12:07:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.




Why don't you stop your heart from beating for a few, and tell us what happened...Faith can move mountains...The story of salvation is there if you want it. Many will be saved, and many will reject being saved because of lack of proof. I say your proof is all around you, you just minimize it and call Darwin and say it was so.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  12:21:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

Verlich statements:

quote:
The God that made the atom and the electrons and protons that orbit it.

So the nucleus of an atom is just neutrons???



Evidentally, electrons and protons orbit an atom in his universe. Everywhere else, protons are part of the nucleus of an atom and electrons orbit the nucleus of the atom.

This is also the universe where bats lack eyes.

Actually, what he said is that the atom itself is only comprized of neutrons. Does that mean that simple hydrogen with an atomic weight of 1 isn't an atom in his universe?


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  12:22:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.




Why don't you stop your heart from beating for a few, and tell us what happened...Faith can move mountains...The story of salvation is there if you want it. Many will be saved, and many will reject being saved because of lack of proof. I say your proof is all around you, you just minimize it and call Darwin and say it was so.



You made the assertation. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  13:22:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.




Why don't you stop your heart from beating for a few, and tell us what happened...Faith can move mountains...The story of salvation is there if you want it. Many will be saved, and many will reject being saved because of lack of proof. I say your proof is all around you, you just minimize it and call Darwin and say it was so.

I suppose that it is concievable that one day I might feel an irrational urge to move a mountain. At that time, I will put my faith in earth-moving machinery and high explosives. Those have a history of reliability whereas just hoping and praying does not.

Proof is all around me? Odd, I've yet to see any such thing. Please help me out here; what proofs?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  15:38:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.



Why don't you stop your heart from beating for a few, and tell us what happened...Faith can move mountains...The story of salvation is there if you want it. Many will be saved, and many will reject being saved because of lack of proof. I say your proof is all around you, you just minimize it and call Darwin and say it was so.

Faith makes you believe you moved the mountain. I can't really see anything that would make me conclude that there is a god (and especially your god), or salvation, or afterlife, etc.

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  19:57:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

quote:
Originally posted by verlch

Mock God all you want...just remember some day you will see him. It could be tommorrow, or in 45 years....Be prepared to prove evolution when you wake up from the dead...

Perhaps you would like to prove that there's a god and an afterlife.



Why don't you stop your heart from beating for a few, and tell us what happened...Faith can move mountains...The story of salvation is there if you want it. Many will be saved, and many will reject being saved because of lack of proof. I say your proof is all around you, you just minimize it and call Darwin and say it was so.

Faith makes you believe you moved the mountain. I can't really see anything that would make me conclude that there is a god (and especially your god), or salvation, or afterlife, etc.



You want no part of salvation, fine. My God is the one that made this universe, not Mr. Big Bang. How did Hubble get into space and find only more galaxies bigger than our own. I know that if you got a bigger telescope into orbit you would find more galaxies. That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  23:19:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?


So now the SIZE of the universe is somehow evidence for your evil god?

Stop eating the THC brownies man.....

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2004 :  23:39:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?


So now the SIZE of the universe is somehow evidence for your evil god?

Stop eating the THC brownies man.....



What, in a little tiny planet you pretend to know the purpose of this universe? Evil, God knows good and evil, as do you. So make a choice who you serve. Mammon or God, its that simple. You can't serve both.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2004 :  02:47:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You want no part of salvation, fine.

What I want to be true doesn't really matter. Anyway, I didn't even say whether I wanted salvation or afterlife, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

quote:
My God is the one that made this universe, not Mr. Big Bang. How did Hubble get into space and find only more galaxies bigger than our own. I know that if you got a bigger telescope into orbit you would find more galaxies. That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?

Yes, the universe does appear to be quite large... at least from our perspective.

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2004 :  03:12:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Evil, God knows good and evil, as do you. So make a choice who you serve. Mammon or God, its that simple. You can't serve both.

I believe fire-and-brimstone preachings were very popular in the middle ages, but since then, man's knowledge has progressed far beyond that. Only small pockets of anachronism still exist today, and I hope that you will one day find your way out of it, Verlch.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2004 :  03:15:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by verlch

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?


So now the SIZE of the universe is somehow evidence for your evil god?

Stop eating the THC brownies man.....



What, in a little tiny planet you pretend to know the purpose of this universe? Evil, God knows good and evil, as do you. So make a choice who you serve. Mammon or God, its that simple. You can't serve both.

Who says that I have to serve either?

So, not being satisfied with showing a profound ignorance of the ToE and the biological sciences, verlch is starting to expand his horizons into astronomy. As my own knowledge of the science is less than impressive (pretty limited, actually), I'll limit my comments. But I am curious about the following:

quote:
You want no part of salvation, fine. My God is the one that made this universe, not Mr. Big Bang. How did Hubble get into space and find only more galaxies bigger than our own. I know that if you got a bigger telescope into orbit you would find more galaxies. That's alot of realestate for one planet in the Milky way, no?


Ignoring the salvation fol-de-rol, how do you know that God directly created the universe? How can you be sure that s/he didn't instead create the Big Bang, doing it the easy way? And what was the rascal up to before the creation of the universe? Further, I might mention that the story-tellers creating the Bible hadn't the faintest idea of what a galaxy is. Thus, you are adding to the text and if you're not careful, God's apt to sue your ass!

I myself think that the Great, Cosmic, Roman-Nosed Mule farted (Big Bang) the universe into being after getting colic from eating too many celestial apples. Unless you can you prove me wrong, my hypothisis is just as good as yours.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2004 :  04:17:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
I myself think that the Great, Cosmic, Roman-Nosed Mule farted (Big Bang) the universe into being after getting colic from eating too many celestial apples. Unless you can you prove me wrong, my hypothisis is just as good as yours.

ROFLMAO.

Ah, Astronomy. Now we're finally entering one of my favorite subjects (albeit not my field of choice: I'm just an amateur, but I certainly have more knowledge of Astronomy than our fundie buddy). But wait! I'm just an ignorant woman. Nevermind then.

C'mom, Verlch. Throw me your best shot. How in the ding dang is the size of the Universe related to your insane ideas, and further, why do you think we're the only in this Universe, since you call it our 'realstate'?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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verlch
SFN Regular

781 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2004 :  13:14:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send verlch an AOL message Send verlch a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

quote:
I myself think that the Great, Cosmic, Roman-Nosed Mule farted (Big Bang) the universe into being after getting colic from eating too many celestial apples. Unless you can you prove me wrong, my hypothisis is just as good as yours.

ROFLMAO.

Ah, Astronomy. Now we're finally entering one of my favorite subjects (albeit not my field of choice: I'm just an amateur, but I certainly have more knowledge of Astronomy than our fundie buddy). But wait! I'm just an ignorant woman. Nevermind then.

C'mom, Verlch. Throw me your best shot. How in the ding dang is the size of the Universe related to your insane ideas, and further, why do you think we're the only in this Universe, since you call it our 'realstate'?



It appears that there are 200 billion stars traveling around the center of the galaxy, yet we can't even see a planet on the closet stars. Many of these stars ars so big they can fit inside the orbit of mars. Or are bigger than the orbit of mars. All of this matter came together by chance, void of any design? Please. You think we are the only ones here? There are plenty of more worlds out there I think, including heaven. I think the whole universe revolves around God in heaven. It would be fitting for God who is bigger than life.

What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?

There are no atheists in foxholes

Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!

Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?

Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.

We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.

"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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