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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  01:29:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Want ozone, just go to Mexico City. They haven't dealt with their smog problem yet.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  01:45:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jhancock6

Ozone is an extremely powerful oxidizer, but so many other substances. Ozone like all substances is perfectly safe if used wisely. It is true that ozone can be harmful and possibly fatal is misused, but pure oxygen can kill you as well, simply put, our bodies are not designed to handle much beyond the atmospheric norms. Ozone is also 3000 times more powerful than chlorine at killing germs and viruses. In fact many of the large water treatment plants in the US use ozone to purify drinking water and almost all bottled water is treated with ozone. This germ killing ability is what you are speaking of and has some merit.
Up to here, I was OK with your post. I don't know about the 3000 times, but ozone does disinfect.

But then you went here.
quote:
Many case studies around the world show that ozone in theraputic levels can be beneficial. One thing to keep in mind is that ozone has a half life of about 30 minutes and then reverts back to oxygen(O2), this being said it means that when the ozone reaches the end of it half life all you are left with is pure oxygen. What many practioners are doing with people that have viruses is to use alternate ways of getting ozone and it's germ and virus killing abilities into the body, this can be done by drinking water that still has ozone in it,
This is not going to treat any infectious disease. The rationale isn't even logical. Antibiotics and antivirals have to target very specific parts of bacteria or viruses to destroy them while preserving one's own cells. Ozone is too general of a toxin to work specifically on a specific pathogen. And, the means of getting it into one's system, drinking water with a little in it, is by no means going to reach most targets.

quote:
removing small amounts of blood, difusing ozone through it and the reintroducing it back in to the body
I've never heard of this. Given your other statements, I think I'll assume it too is not effective. It doesn't sound safe. Provide a citation and I'll look at it.

quote:
and even letting the body absorb ozone through the skin, like it absorbs many other substances through the skin, good and bad.
The skin is a very good barrier. Most things absorbed through the skin have to be fat soluble. I don't know where ozone stands on that. But if it were effective, you might see different infection patterns in smoggy cities. You do, but lung infections are worse, not better.

quote:
There are many uses for ozone and most can be found on the web just verify the source, which started this discussion. With some due diligence it is fairly easy to identify the BS sites from the legitimate sites.

Industrial uses, yes. But which sites did you find credible that advocated use in the human body directly?
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invaderzim
New Member

USA
1 Post

Posted - 01/01/2005 :  21:23:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send invaderzim a Private Message
Medical ozone is used extensively in Europe. In fact, German ambulances are required by law to be equiped with an ozone generator.

There are over 3,000 medical references in the German literature alone showing the effectiveness and safety of ozone in over 50 years of application to humans by way of millions of dosages. The International Ozone Association and the ozone machine manufacturers report over 7,000 M.D.'s in Europe using medical ozone safely and effectively, some for more than 40 years, yet for the past 20 years the FDA has prevented human testine and issuine any ozone-generating device approvals.

The German Medical Society has published that 384,775 patients were treated with ozone with a minimum of 5,579,238 applications and the side effect rate observed was only .000005 per application.

1980 Aug 22nd Sweet F, Kao M S, Lee S-CD (Dept of obstetrics and Gynecology, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, Mo) & W. Hagar (St Louis Air Pollution Control) publish in "Science" Vol 209:931-933, a U.S. peer reviewed scientific journal, their study: "Ozone Selectively Inhibits Human Cancer Cell Growth." They announce "Evidently the mechanisms for defense against ozone damage are impaired in human cancer cells." "All of the cancer cells (lung, breast, uterine and dometrial) showed marked dose-dependent growth inhibition in ozone at .3 and .5 ppm" while the normal cells were not affected. "Evidently cancer cells are less able to compensate for the oxidative burden of ozone than normal cells." They also stated that ozone inhibits cancer 40 to 60%, and up to 90% in a dose dependent manner.

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tw101356
Skeptic Friend

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2005 :  22:45:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tw101356 a Private Message
Invaderzim, are you actually Ed McCabe? If not, you should not quote him so extensively without attribution....

quote:
Originally posted by invaderzim

Medical ozone is used extensively in Europe. In fact, German ambulances are required by law to be equiped with an ozone generator.

There are over 3,000 medical references in the German literature alone showing the effectiveness and safety of ozone in over 50 years of application to humans by way of millions of dosages. The International Ozone Association and the ozone machine manufacturers report over 7,000 M.D.'s in Europe using medical ozone safely and effectively, some for more than 40 years, yet for the past 20 years the FDA has prevented human testine and issuine any ozone-generating device approvals.


Look familiar? The next paragraph can be found at the bottom of the link.

quote:

The German Medical Society has published that 384,775 patients were treated with ozone with a minimum of 5,579,238 applications and the side effect rate observed was only .000005 per application.

1980 Aug 22nd Sweet F, Kao M S, Lee S-CD (Dept of obstetrics and Gynecology, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, Mo) & W. Hagar (St Louis Air Pollution Control) publish in "Science" Vol 209:931-933, a U.S. peer reviewed scientific journal, their study: "Ozone Selectively Inhibits Human Cancer Cell Growth." They announce "Evidently the mechanisms for defense against ozone damage are impaired in human cancer cells." "All of the cancer cells (lung, breast, uterine and dometrial) showed marked dose-dependent growth inhibition in ozone at .3 and .5 ppm" while the normal cells were not affected. "Evidently cancer cells are less able to compensate for the oxidative burden of ozone than normal cells." They also stated that ozone inhibits cancer 40 to 60%, and up to 90% in a dose dependent manner.



If the most recent study you can cite is from 25 years ago, it likely indicates that this line of research was not fruitful.

- TW

- TW
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  00:10:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by invaderzim

Medical ozone is used extensively in Europe.
For what?
quote:
In fact, German ambulances are required by law to be equiped with an ozone generator.
For what?
quote:
There are over 3,000 medical references in the German literature alone showing the effectiveness and safety of ozone in over 50 years of application to humans by way of millions of dosages.
For what?
quote:
The International Ozone Association and the ozone machine manufacturers report over 7,000 M.D.'s in Europe using medical ozone safely and effectively, some for more than 40 years...
For what?
quote:
...yet for the past 20 years the FDA has prevented human testine and issuine any ozone-generating device approvals.
Good. For what?
quote:
The German Medical Society has published that 384,775 patients were treated with ozone with a minimum of 5,579,238 applications and the side effect rate observed was only .000005 per application.
For what were they treated?
quote:
1980 Aug 22nd Sweet F, Kao M S, Lee S-CD (Dept of obstetrics and Gynecology, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, Mo) & W. Hagar (St Louis Air Pollution Control) publish in "Science" Vol 209:931-933, a U.S. peer reviewed scientific journal, their study: "Ozone Selectively Inhibits Human Cancer Cell Growth." They announce "Evidently the mechanisms for defense against ozone damage are impaired in human cancer cells." "All of the cancer cells (lung, breast, uterine and dometrial) showed marked dose-dependent growth inhibition in ozone at .3 and .5 ppm" while the normal cells were not affected. "Evidently cancer cells are less able to compensate for the oxidative burden of ozone than normal cells." They also stated that ozone inhibits cancer 40 to 60%, and up to 90% in a dose dependent manner.
Yup. In a study done on cultured cancer cells. So what? Did you know that laetrile works just fine on cultured cancer cells, but if you inject it into a live human the kidneys filter it out within minutes (negating all effects), and if a live human injests laetrile it is digested (negating all effects)?

Show us the studies done on live human beings with cancer treated with ozone at levels created by a typical commercial "ozone generator" used as the instructions suggest, as compared to live human beings with cancer treated with the same type of ozone generator (except broken so it wouldn't generate ozone), with no other treatment and a five-year follow-up period looking for survival rates in a sample of at least 25 patients in both groups. Positive results in such a study would truly be impressive.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  10:04:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Dave W:
Did you know that laetrile works just fine on cultured cancer cells, but if you inject it into a live human the kidneys filter it out within minutes (negating all effects), and if a live human injests laetrile it is digested (negating all effects)?


The kidneys hopefully filter it out. Laetrile happens to be full of cyanide. And people who have taken laetrile have died from ingesting toxic levels of cyanide.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  10:50:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I appreciate this thread. We went to a friend's home yesterday, and sat and talked and ate and talked for about 7 hours with an ozone generator running somewhere in the house.

I never asked why it was running.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  12:35:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
tw101356:
Look familiar?


Yes, this had to be a copy and paste job if ever there was one. And look at the site! You might want to check out the ozone generator. You will have to scroll down past a lot of other crap. And while your at it, look at all the other things they sell or promote. The site is a woo woo product o-rama with a wide range of useless health products and devices that will almost certainly improve the financial health of Altered States Ltd.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  13:19:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

quote:
tw101356:
Look familiar?


Yes, this had to be a copy and paste job if ever there was one. And look at the site! You might want to check out the ozone generator. You will have to scroll down past a lot of other crap. And while your at it, look at all the other things they sell or promote. The site is a woo woo product o-rama with a wide range of useless health products and devices that will almost certainly improve the financial health of Altered States Ltd.

Wow! Neat stuff! I especally liked this little gem:
quote:
The power of moving magnetic signals is illustrated in one study where 3 volunteers were given LSD and were given sessions with the Koren Helmet. When the coils were moving, the subjects saw "blobs of white, purplish, or greenish-yellow lights ". When the magnets (ordinary horseshoe magnets, not the coils or signals used in Shakti For Windows) weren't moving, the subjects didn't see these lights. And those were common magnets, not much different from the kind you might have on your refrigerator................


Using magnetic signals for consciousness exploration, spiritual growth, altered-state experience, and learning brain structure and function.
Meditation Enhancement, Out Of Body Experiences, Visions, Altered States, Lucid dreaming, visual enhancements, and other effects have been reported from this technology.

And all for only NZ$349.95.

How did we ever get along without it. Why, I might buy one and throw away my Q Bracelet.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  18:55:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

The kidneys hopefully filter it out. Laetrile happens to be full of cyanide. And people who have taken laetrile have died from ingesting toxic levels of cyanide.
The actual cancer-fighting molecule is what is called Laetrile. That there's cyanide mixed up in the stuff when it's made from apicrot pits and not refined doesn't affect the elimination of the Laetrile itself by the kidneys.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2005 :  23:34:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Dave W:
That there's cyanide mixed up in the stuff when it's made from apicrot pits and not refined doesn't affect the elimination of the Laetrile itself by the kidneys.

Ok, but it should be noted that many of those selling the "natural B17" cure for cancer are selling apircot pits with directions on how to use them....

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Blindwillie
New Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2005 :  17:12:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Blindwillie a Private Message
Sorry to go off topic... Im new here, so this is my first post.
But ive noticed that since you guys are talking about ozone stuff that i might say an observation, or maybe an inference. Im not sure if its good enought to be an observation but oh well...
But are cigarettes really as bad as people say. It seems that people who smoke two packs a day can still live full lifes. But if some one lives off of mcdonalds or pottato pancakes, they could die in a couple of years easily. i may be wrong about that i didnt do much research, like i said it might just be an inference...
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2005 :  08:29:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blindwillie

Sorry to go off topic... Im new here, so this is my first post.
But ive noticed that since you guys are talking about ozone stuff that i might say an observation, or maybe an inference. Im not sure if its good enought to be an observation but oh well...
But are cigarettes really as bad as people say. It seems that people who smoke two packs a day can still live full lifes. But if some one lives off of mcdonalds or pottato pancakes, they could die in a couple of years easily. i may be wrong about that i didnt do much research, like i said it might just be an inference...



Tobacco products do contain the harmful chemicals that are complained about. There are causal relationships between the myriad of harmful chemicals in smokable tobacco products and increased risk of emphasemia and cancer. Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of smoking, not ozone. And an increased risk is just that, a risk.

Living off McDonalds (as the food is devoid of nutrition in any meaningful amount) is more likely to cause problems through nutritional deficiencies and increase caloric intake. The food and it's component blocks are part of the body for longer than smoke. It's also a matter of concentration.

Nutrition is more of a best guess of what might be healthy. Some nutritionists believe that pasta is high in fat and therefore bad for you. My question would be then why are there so many Italians? Obviously nutrition is a lot more complex.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2005 :  08:55:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Welcome Blindwillie!

A diet of only McDonalds would in fact be bad for you, besides the fact that it tastes like crap. Likewise smoking 2 packs a day is bad for you.
The point is these life styles increase your chances of having health problems. Lots of 2 packs-a-day smokers live to ripe old ages. But the likelyhood of you getting lung or heart disease increase dramatically. The same is true of a lousy diet it is not a death sentence but your likelyhood of disease is greater.




If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2005 :  10:54:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
Blindwillie, we don't usually allow multiple posts. What I mean is you should not cut and paste the same post in several threads. Since people have responded in all the threads I am going to let this go as a warning about future cut and paste jobs. You must respond to each thread specifically...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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