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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2004 :  13:15:10  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=184701&page=1

Halloween cancelled at WA school because, (cough), quote

quote:
The district said Halloween celebrations and children dressed in Halloween costumes might be offensive to real witches.

"Witches with pointy noses and things like that are not respective symbols of the Wiccan religion and so we want to be respectful of that," Hansen said.

The Wiccan, or Pagan, religion is said to be growing in the United States and there are Wiccan groups in Puyallup.

On the district's list of guidelines related to holidays and celebrations is an item that reads: "Use of derogatory stereotypes is prohibited, such as the traditional image of a witch, which is offensive to members of the Wiccan religion."



"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2004 :  14:48:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
And you can't dress up as a scary ghost, because that might offend the friendly ghosts, such as Casper.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2004 :  16:15:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Some school superintendents have too much time on their hands.

And I rather doubt that all that many Wiccans care what the kids do on Halloween as long as it doesn't involve cherry bombs in their mail boxes or other property damage.

Yeesh, Soop. Get a life!



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2004 :  16:27:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Oh psh. I bet 70% of those alleged wiccans even know what they're supposed to be doing. I've a wiccan friend... and she never minded Halloween. -shrug-

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2004 :  17:04:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Is it ok for a wiccan to dress up as a witch?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2004 :  06:03:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

Is it ok for a wiccan to dress up as a witch?



While I really appreciate Washington actually caring about Wicca, their methodology really sucks.

Halloween is the Festival of Samhain, a deeply religious time for Wiccans. We recognise that Halloween (the secular holiday) is a time for kids to dress up as fanciful characters and real ones inspired by the media as a lot of fun and to get copious amounts of candy. The great majority of Wiccans could give a shit less about kids dressed up as witches. Although there are over-sensitive individuals in any religion who will take offense at anything (example: Christians who object to the commercialization of Christmas), it is not indicative of the majority opinion.

It is important to note that the district mentioned that it might be offensive. No Wiccan group has decried it. In fact the article linked shows the district's ignorance of the Wiccan religion.

I am speaking as a practioner of the Wiccan religion of over 15 years. Thanks, BigPapaSmurf for bringing this to my attention. I'll have to write the school to inform them of their error.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2004 :  07:04:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
How stupid. I wonder-- how many kids actually dress up as witches anyways? Sure, it's an old standard along with the ghost, werewolf, Frankenstein('s monster), the skeleton, and Dracula, but how common is it? Look in any Hallowween costume store now, and you're just as likely-- if not more-- to see an array of freaky monsters, plus movie or TV characters, costumes related to current events (politicians, the Bush twins, Hussein, Jerrod the SubWay guy), and so on.

If all you care about is not offending Wiccans, why not just ban or otherwise discourage generic witch costumes, a la the Wizard of Oz?

This way, kids can still dress up, various businesses that capitalize on the holiday can make their money, and the citizens of the said WA school won't look like such idiots.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 10/22/2004 07:05:33
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2004 :  13:02:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
What I would like to see for a Halloween dress-up (woth gore and all) is a Christ bearing a cross...
Wouldn't that be a scary sight?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  01:16:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

What I would like to see for a Halloween dress-up (woth gore and all) is a Christ bearing a cross...
Wouldn't that be a scary sight?

Parently ya haven't been to one of them Christian haunted houses.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/23/2004 01:22:44
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  01:20:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Here's what I posted at another forum on this very thing.
We have a school district here with a new twist. They want to ban Halloween so as not to offend the Wiccans!

quote:
District officials say the ban is largely a matter of religious sensitivity -- to Wiccans

Halloween is a religious holiday for Wiccans, the memo noted, and its celebration in mainstream culture has generated unsavory images that might offend real-life witches.


But the local TV editorial writer says it's BS

quote:
It's an ogre wearing a superintendent's costume who made the decision.

He comes with the improbable name of Tony Apostle.

The irony is that I'm hearing from Wiccans who say they are indeed offended -- by Apostle, for using them as a lame excuse to ban Halloween!
What a crack up. I can't imagine wasting time at a school district meeting over this. It's insane.

So if I want to start a religion, and claim Memorial Day is my religion's holiday, can I take over that holiday?

So Christians' claim Halloween is against their religion, when we all know no one thought of it as devil worship until the Christians brought it up. And Wiccan's claim Halloween is their holiday, when maybe there is the most remote connection to some pagan celebration which was not Wiccan religion until they said so. What a bunch of hooey.

Halloween is my holiday. They can't have it. I celebrate the best decorations of all the holidays and chocolate candy. It's mine I tell you!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  02:32:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
This brings up an interesting question: What if the kids, parents and all, celebrate it anyway? As will most likely happen. What's Aposle going to do about it? What can he do about it?

Nothing, methinks.

What we have here perhaps, is either another picayune Ceasar wannabe or maybe a fundementalist of some sort who wants to cancel Halloween for personal, religious reasons (which he is certainly not stupid enough to put forth). I wonder what his church affilations are.

Edited to add this:

http://www.puyallup.k12.wa.us/community/connections/jun04.pdf

Seems like a reasonable sort o' feller. We'll have to look it up again after Halloween,




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 10/23/2004 02:44:09
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2004 :  15:24:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

What I would like to see for a Halloween dress-up (woth gore and all) is a Christ bearing a cross...
Wouldn't that be a scary sight?

Parently ya haven't been to one of them Christian haunted houses.

I haven't heard of any hell-houses in Sweden. Perhaps I live a sheltered life, or enough of my countrymen are smart enough not to fall for that crap so the cost/benefit ratio is too low to maintain it.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2004 :  09:05:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

What I would like to see for a Halloween dress-up (woth gore and all) is a Christ bearing a cross...
Wouldn't that be a scary sight?

Parently ya haven't been to one of them Christian haunted houses.

I haven't heard of any hell-houses in Sweden. Perhaps I live a sheltered life, or enough of my countrymen are smart enough not to fall for that crap so the cost/benefit ratio is too low to maintain it.



Neither here. I guess Brazil didn't sink to that level yet. But then again, Halloween isn't a national tradition here - it's faced as just a kid's play in english courses/schools, or a good adolescent excuse to get drunk (in some cases, high) all night long (and a part of the next day, too!) .

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2004 :  07:13:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Here's what I posted at another forum on this very thing.
We have a school district here with a new twist. They want to ban Halloween so as not to offend the Wiccans!

quote:
District officials say the ban is largely a matter of religious sensitivity -- to Wiccans

Halloween is a religious holiday for Wiccans, the memo noted, and its celebration in mainstream culture has generated unsavory images that might offend real-life witches.


But the local TV editorial writer says it's BS

quote:
It's an ogre wearing a superintendent's costume who made the decision.

He comes with the improbable name of Tony Apostle.

The irony is that I'm hearing from Wiccans who say they are indeed offended -- by Apostle, for using them as a lame excuse to ban Halloween!
What a crack up. I can't imagine wasting time at a school district meeting over this. It's insane.

So if I want to start a religion, and claim Memorial Day is my religion's holiday, can I take over that holiday?

So Christians' claim Halloween is against their religion, when we all know no one thought of it as devil worship until the Christians brought it up. And Wiccan's claim Halloween is their holiday, when maybe there is the most remote connection to some pagan celebration which was not Wiccan religion until they said so. What a bunch of hooey.


Wiccans don't claim Halloween is exclusively their holiday. They recognise the old religions used this as a harvest/death festival. One later co-opted by Christianity as All Hallows Eve. And then later called a Satanic holiday by the extremist fundies. Wicca uses October 31st as the festival of Samhain which celebrates the past harvest and a recognition of the earth going to sleep for the winter. As Halloween has been around longer than neo-paganism (established 1890's by the Golden Dawn movement), no neo-pagan makes exclusive claim to the holiday.

I wrote Bill Budge, Executive Director of Special Services and Programs, to disabuse him of the idea of Wiccans objecting to Halloween.

quote:

Halloween is my holiday. They can't have it. I celebrate the best decorations of all the holidays and chocolate candy. It's mine I tell you!


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 10/25/2004 07:14:57
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