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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2004 : 16:49:05
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The hell?
The hell? On a certain other website there's an argument about the supposed "communistic origins" of the ACLU.
Here are the links that were given. I'm going to be going some googling myself, but for now, does anyone know anything about this?
http://www.internet-grocer.com/aclu.htm
http://www.geocities.com/graymada/aclu.html
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 10/24/2004 16:52:04
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2004 : 18:20:23 [Permalink]
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If we continue on as we are going, the ACLU might be the only thing standing between us and a theocratic government.
The communist claims are a pile of crap. Ever since the '50s, and earlier, if some entity was disliked, it was shouted that it had communist ties. It continues today -- the tosspot ghost of Joe McCarthy yet walks among us.....
 (Card-carrying member of the ACLU.) |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2004 : 18:46:23 [Permalink]
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What's ACLU?
It's always the same. Blame the communists, call it Nazi, call it fascist, call it even anarchist, but heck, don't let it live. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 04:17:59 [Permalink]
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I think you'll find a lot of good people belonged to a very respectable organization called the American Communist Party, and you'll probably find that many of the founding members of the ACLU were Communists or socialists.
I recommend Howard Fast's autobiography, Being Red, to be more acquainted with the American Communists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Fast
http://trussel.com/f_how.htm
I found this in the Atlanta Journal Constitution:
Q: A recent letter to the editor in the Brunswick News said that former President Jimmy Carter awarded the nation's highest civilian medal to Roger Baldwin, founder of the American Civil Liberties Union. The letter further stated that Baldwin was a member of the Communist Party. Can you verify if any of this is true?
--- C. L. Ray, Marietta
A: The Carter Presidential Center confirmed that on Jan. 16, 1981, Carter awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Baldwin, who founded the ACLU in 1920. Baldwin, who was born in 1884, died Aug. 26, 1981.
Some early critics indeed did accuse the ACLU of defending only Communists, but the organization responded by pointing out that for the same reason it defended them, it also defended Nazis and members of the Ku Klux Klan. It explained that it defended not their doctrines, but their right to make them known as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Current Biography (1940), in its section on Baldwin, quoted this as the ACLU's statement of purpose: "We stand on general principle that all matters of public concern should be freely discussed without interference."
As far as Baldwin personally being a member of the Communist Party, there's no evidence, although he was known to be "extremely active" in the American left in the 1920s and '30s, as The New York Times reported at his death. The Times obituary went on to say: "A member of no party, he was nonetheless amenable to helping the Communists, Socialists and Leftists. By 1940, however, he had experienced a change of heart about the Communists."
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 06:20:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
The communist claims are a pile of crap. Ever since the '50s, and earlier, if some entity was disliked, it was shouted that it had communist ties. It continues today -- the tosspot ghost of Joe McCarthy yet walks among us.....
I think it also has to do with the fact that the ACLU actually defends the rights of communists to meet and speak freely-- something that the Constitution guarentees! Thus, in a bit of irony, they became associated with the far left. Imagine-- defending the Constitution is a task for communists!
It is now fashionable for the right to blame the ACLU for all sorts of societal ills because they're in the habit of defending commies, atheists, minority religions (Islam, Hindu, Wicca, etc.). Of course, the ACLU also defends main-stream Christians but that rarely makes news in fundie circles... |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2004 : 15:18:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Yes, the organization dedicated to defending the Bill of Rights is communist. Good God. Am I wrong in fearing for the future of our democracy?
What democracy? The last remnants of it? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 05:26:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Yes, the organization dedicated to defending the Bill of Rights is communist. Good God. Am I wrong in fearing for the future of our democracy?
What democracy? The last remnants of it?
Well, it's not that bad . . . . |
-Chaloobi
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 08:04:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Yes, the organization dedicated to defending the Bill of Rights is communist. Good God. Am I wrong in fearing for the future of our democracy?
What democracy? The last remnants of it?
Well, it's not that bad . . . .
Say after me: Plu-to-cra-cy.   |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 08:15:07 [Permalink]
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| Is there any government - anywhere - that's NOT a plutocracy at heart? |
-Chaloobi
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 18:38:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Is there any government - anywhere - that's NOT a plutocracy at heart?
Finland?
Scandinavia as a region tops the list of least government corruption in the world, at least what I read in a newspaper recently. Finland is rated best among the Scandinavian countries. During election years, politicions talk about issues, and though Big Business doesn't stay quiet, they have very limited options to control media or campaigning.
In Sweden, 10 years ago there was practically no personal elections, only party, and the party nominated the representatives.
People generally have a high education level. Literacy rate is very high. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 01:32:33 [Permalink]
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| What's a plutocracy? |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 02:00:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominic_dice
What's a plutocracy?
Rule by the wealthy.
"Money won't buy you love....." -- what a crock!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 06:26:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Is there any government - anywhere - that's NOT a plutocracy at heart?
Finland?
Scandinavia as a region tops the list of least government corruption in the world, at least what I read in a newspaper recently. Finland is rated best among the Scandinavian countries. During election years, politicions talk about issues, and though Big Business doesn't stay quiet, they have very limited options to control media or campaigning.
In Sweden, 10 years ago there was practically no personal elections, only party, and the party nominated the representatives.
People generally have a high education level. Literacy rate is very high.
Well, there just isn't as much to steal in Scandinavia. 
Also, the US is not a democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 06:41:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
<snip>
Also, the US is not a democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic.
Well, yes, of course. But it incorporates the concept of the masses shaping policy via the vote and in the vernacular we call that 'democracy.' It's not technically correct, but it's better for wide, simple communication. The idea is understood and more or less the same, for the purposes of this thread, however. |
-Chaloobi
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