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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2004 :  12:59:53  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004110514220002858574&dt=20041105142200&w=RTR&coview=

The immigration site is having record hits from america, site traffic up 600%.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2004 :  15:26:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message
Unfortunately, I'm too old to qualify for permanent residence as a skilled worker.

Dunno about the work permit/get a job in advance thing though. Might be worth looking into. I had a job already when I got off the plane in LA.

Wonder if Canada has much of a recording/pro audio industry?

"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
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joedesmarais
New Member

Iraq
18 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  17:56:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send joedesmarais a Private Message
Moving to Canada? So now it will become not only a haven for cowards and deserter, we can add whiny losers to the list? More power to them. It will only save our country time and money in 2008
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  18:27:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Moving to Canada? So now it will become not only a haven for cowards and deserter, we can add whiny losers to the list? More power to them. It will only save our country time and money in 2008


Are people who ran from the U.S.S.R. cowards and deserters? Are the Jews who fled from Hitler cowards and deserters?

If you think the country you are living in is doing horrible things, move. Simple solution. I think Bush is doing horrible things.

Furthermore, you seem to miss that it is a sarcastic statement by saying moving to Canada.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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joedesmarais
New Member

Iraq
18 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  19:20:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send joedesmarais a Private Message
Are people who ran from the U.S.S.R. cowards and deserters? Are the Jews who fled from Hitler cowards and deserters?

If you think the country you are living in is doing horrible things, move. Simple solution. I think Bush is doing horrible things.

Furthermore, you seem to miss that it is a sarcastic statement by saying moving to Canada



And I was just beginning to respect your level-headedness! Comparing Democrats to refugees escaping communism? To the Jews escaping Hitler? What horrible things is the US doing that is comparable to the Holocaust? Like you said before, instead of just stating that the USA is doing 'horrible things', you should back it up with facts. We won't just let you get away with making a comment....went something like that right?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  20:30:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
quote:
What horrible things is the US doing that is comparable to the Holocaust? Like you said before, instead of just stating that the USA is doing 'horrible things', you should back it up with facts. We won't just let you get away with making a comment....went something like that right?



That is exactly right. However, I thought it was obvious that the hatred for Bush runs so deep that people actually compare him to Stalin or Hitler. That is why I didn't back it up, I thought it was commonly known and accepted as fact. For example, if you said that gravity is 9.8m/s^2, I wouldn't ask you to back that up, its commonly known. However you have asked me to back it up and I will do such.

What first must be said is that these are not my opinions. We are talking about other people here, this is not exactly how I feel.

Many people in America think that Bush is in Iraq for one of these two reasons, or both, or others which are just as absurd:

1.) Oil
2.) Finish father's war with Saddam

Now are these right? Did W. actually go to war because of these reasons? Doesn't matter. All that matters is that people think this. Because they think this, they also think that many innocent people are dying in Iraq (another common fact, if you really want me to back this up, I will), which includes the Iraqis as well as American soldiers.

So you think your country is killing people because either oil or to finish off a war with Saddam. Is this justified? No. Would it be acceptable to move from a country which was doing this? Yes.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2004 :  22:18:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by joedesmarais

Moving to Canada? So now it will become not only a haven for cowards and deserter, we can add whiny losers to the list? More power to them. It will only save our country time and money in 2008



Oops!! I was looking for the Skeptic Friends website, but it looks like I got some sort of Ruch Limbaugh forum instead. Sorry.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2004 :  02:21:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Here's my critical thinking on the matter.

I am keeping Canada and Australia on my list of refuges. As a medical provider I feel very fortunate to have a skill which makes immigration easier.

I have a 15 year old son. In two years when he is 17 I'll assess whether we need to leave. There is just no way I want him to pay for Bush's Iraq war decision. That war is not making me any safer. It wasn't started by me. I didn't vote for Bush and neither did 49% of us. My son will not be sacrificed for Bush's stupidity.

The Patriot Act, the prisoners without trial nor even representation in Guantanamo, a President who has his Attorney General see if torture might be OK to use in some situations, Evangelical Christian laws seen as Constitutional, a president who saw no problem approving well over 100 executions when DNA evidence is proving our prison systems have very high percentages of innocent persons in our jails, (statistically 20-30 of those persons were very likely innocent), a President who thinks 51% vote is a mandate to do whatever he wants.....the list of reasons to consider leaving is very very long.

I intend to continue fighting against the Bush regime unless it becomes clear my son might be drafted. But I am very upset about the actions our government is taking against the rest of the world.

There is irrefutable evidence we have made the lives of the Iraqis worse than under Saddam, at least in Central Iraq. Not only is our government unwilling to count the Iraqi bodies, they are unwilling to let anyone else count them as well. Now why is that?

But it just doesn't work that way. For all the effort to put on a good face before the election, what's really happening in Iraq cannot be changed by propaganda.

Now we are going to find out whether all those 51% or how many there really were that voted for Bush were right or whether the rest of us were. This country is going to be very messed up after 4 more years. The mess Bush made of things in the first 4 years was just totally negated by the Republican marketing machine and the Evangelical idiots who think gay marriage and stem cell research are bigger sins than bombing a city with thousands of innocent children in it.

And if you think we aren't killing many innocent bystanders in Iraq you should read some of the returning soldier's Blogs, independent news reporters' stories, and the evidence that the Iraqis aren't exactly welcoming the US as predicted by Bush.

BTW, where did you come from joe? Were you lurking until now or are you just searching for forums to troll in? I'm just curious. Security man in Baghdad? How often do the Iraqis have you over for coffee?
Edited by - beskeptigal on 11/07/2004 02:52:44
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2004 :  02:46:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

...Many people in America think that Bush is in Iraq for one of these two reasons, or both, or others which are just as absurd:

1.) Oil
2.) Finish father's war with Saddam




According to Bob (big Bush supporter) Woodward's books, and backed up by Richard (insider they tried to discredit) Clarke's book, Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz had Iraq invasion plans before even taking office. The goals were the oil market, and other investments with money generating potential. They believed the war would be quick, and a capitalist friendly country would emerge without effort. Then everyone could make money and the democracy (with capitalism being more important than fair elections) domino effect would begin.

The plan was discussed among themselves with a sigh that they probably couldn't pull it off unless something big happened. Then low and behold, their wish came true on 9-11.

They were stupid. They were culturally ignorant. Many people advised them of what the consequences would be but they chose to ignore that advice. The ignored advice turned out to be overwhelmingly correct.

Another piece of evidence that this was the plan all along was how the administration handled the contracts after the initial war. None for you and you, all for us and us. No contracts if you didn't help. No contracts to even the Iraqi people. All our tax dollars have been pumped into the rich connected corporations.

I listened to an interview with a reporter who was not embedded but instead loose in Baghdad when the US invaded. He said at first a lot of foreigners came in to make money off the rebuilding dollars. But it soon was apparent all the money was going to Halliburton and similar connected companies. The foreign workers left. It wasn't that the foreign workers should have gotten any jobs but it does go to show that there is no money going to Iraqi jobs either. You can't rebuild a country if there are no jobs. More stupid decisions by Bush.

And 4 more years of bad decisions to go.
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