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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 11/19/2004 : 06:14:38
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4014351.stm
Well see if it has some ERVs that all great apes share as we would expect, right peptide...
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 06:28:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4014351.stm
Well see if it has some ERVs that all great apes share as we would expect, right peptide...
I was going to put that one up last night, but got involved in something else and forgot. It's very interesting.
Also interesting is a possible hearth dicsovered in South Carolina dated at 50,000 years. I'll see if I can find the link again........here we go:
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBZEY8BO1E.html
I've been watching the AiG and ICR cults to get their take on both. Thus far, only the sound of crickets. I'm sure that will change shortly.
Edited to add the "Missing Link."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 11/19/2004 06:31:50 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 08:09:10 [Permalink]
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We will have to wait on this one (50,000 year old fire pit). There were a hellova lot of qualifiers in this article. It is also curious that Goodyear went to the press instead of a peer review journal. The burnt material is probably 50,000 years old but it is not clear at all if the burnt material is from the activities of man.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 08:51:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
We will have to wait on this one (50,000 year old fire pit). There were a hellova lot of qualifiers in this article. It is also curious that Goodyear went to the press instead of a peer review journal. The burnt material is probably 50,000 years old but it is not clear at all if the burnt material is from the activities of man.
Agreed. I'm taking this one with an entire boulder of salt. It is interesting to note evidence of the woods found in the remains:
quote:
The results showed that wood varieties - oak, pine, red cherry and buckeye - had been burned in a low-temperature fire at least 50,300 years ago, he said.
Exactly how they identify species is a mystery to me, but it looks like common, scrub forest. Anyone who has heated and/or cooked with wood knows that you don't use pine for other than kindling. And not even that, if you can get around it. I'm sure our ancient ancestors knew this even better than we.
But what if they should find bits of charred bone; bone with butchering scores on it?
Won't happen, I think, but what a donnybrook if it did!
Going to the media before submitting a paper troubles me, too. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 09:09:31 [Permalink]
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| what does this story have to do with modern humans 50,000 years ago? you sure this doesnt belong in the 3 points thread? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2004 : 00:08:47 [Permalink]
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| The hominid fossils mentioned in BPS first link in the starting post of this thread are in the latest issue of Science. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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AutomaticSlim
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 12:04:04 [Permalink]
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They had a language alright, but not a written language. Those paleo-Americans probably knew more about wood than any of us ever will.
Dr. Goodyear's dig...The Topper Site...reminds me of Louis S.B. Leakey's dig in California years ago. It was called the Calico Site. The 'artifacts' were actually geofacts, which I believe is what Goodyear has at Topper. Geofacts are most common in areas where lithic raw materials outcrop, which is exactly where the Topper Site sits. I've not seen a pic of an artifact yet that looked for sure like it came from the hand of man. None of the 'artifacts' are bifacially worked, which would be a sure sign of work by humans. Unifacial debitage is easily and commonly produced by the actions of nature. Another big problem I see Dr. Goodyear has on this latest press release is the date given. 50K is the limit for 14C dating. As one approaches the limit, ten half-lives, the accuracy starts to deteriorate. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 14:28:30 [Permalink]
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Hi Slim and welcome!
I think I'd be looking for evidence that the 'pit' was actually used for cooking -- fragments of bone, perhaps. Also evidence of knapping in the surrounding area.
Thus far, I've seen nothing on that order.
As mentioned by furshur earlier, the find becomes more questionable when the media publishs before the scientific journals -- a trap National Geographic fell into a couple of years ago.
I'm still waiting for comment from AiG and ICR on the skeleton found in Spain. I'm also waiting for further info on it. This might turn out to be an even greater find than is currently thought.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 14:48:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
...But I wouldn't expect our ancient ancestors, who didn't have a real language, would understand what burns well and what doesn't. Isn't that a bit much to expect?
Well, let's see. Trial and error?
I imagine that the first hominids to use fire learned, first, that fire's a mischievous thing to keep around. I imagine primitive hominids burning just whatever wood they found, then realising some gave better and easier fire than others... and using those, then passing the knowledge down to the progenies and so forth. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 19:16:53 [Permalink]
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| Using firewood in fires 365,25 days a year for 20-30 years builds experience. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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