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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  10:35:29  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I come from a long of Eastern European heritage. Hungary, Romania, Gemany. Where belief in Vampires was and is rampant. But the Vampire has evolved much through history much like humans. Folklore, Hollywood,and Genre have all left its fangs in it's Existent. But what has been labeled Vampire does it really exist?
From the Hungarian Magyar word Vam Pir or Blood Monster.

Great Read Vampires, Burial, and Death Folklore and Reality by Paul Barber

Any comments?

I have some great Vampire stories. True Stories

Storm

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  10:57:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I come from a long of Eastern European heritage. Hungary, Romania, Gemany. Where belief in Vampires was and is rampant. But the Vampire has evolved much through history much like humans. Folklore, Hollywood,and Genre have all left its fangs in it's Existent. But what has been labeled Vampire does it really exist?
From the Hungarian Magyar word Vam Pir or Blood Monster.

Great Read Vampires, Burial, and Death Folklore and Reality by Paul Barber

Any comments?

I have some great Vampire stories. True Stories



As those societies had some great blood-thristy tyrants (Elizabeth Bathory, Prince Vlad son of Dracul aka Vlad the Impaler, etc), the idea of a blood monster would be understandable. (Especially in the case of Elizabeth Bathory.)

There were also stories of the dead coming back to feed on the living. These evil spirits (or Strigoi) fly about at night and suck the blood from sleeping children.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  11:07:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Any comments?


Yeah, I can't help but notice that and are conspicuously absent from this post...


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  11:22:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Vampires differ all over the world in different cultures. Please define vampire before this discussion takes place, as in your last post a lot of definition switching took place. Please specifically say what you think is a vampire.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  11:41:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Well Ricky you can have the vampire of folklore the Strigoi or Fair Lady. Entities tha return from the dead or are seperate entities of themselves, realm travelers, or Your hollywood Vampire of Ann Rice, or those who have been mislabeled either one but are actually the natural decomposition of the body. I am guilty of being Elusive only not switching words. Only to make you thinkand do the work yourself. You will feel much better if you do.

Storm
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  11:52:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Only to make you thinkand do the work yourself. You will feel much better if you do.


Storm, I am appalled that you somehow think I sit around and have nothing to do all day long. Is this what life is like for you? I have a very busy schedule, I don't have time to sit here and go through endless pages of crap to find what you are talking about.

If you have evidence, show it. If you don't, it is also you who are full of crap.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  12:08:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Well Ricky you can have the vampire of folklore the Strigoi or Fair Lady. Entities tha return from the dead or are seperate entities of themselves, realm travelers, or Your hollywood Vampire of Ann Rice, or those who have been mislabeled either one but are actually the natural decomposition of the body. I am guilty of being Elusive only not switching words. Only to make you thinkand do the work yourself. You will feel much better if you do.



The work I have done on this subject leads me to conclude that they are societal legends which have basis in the actions of tyrants. The creatures do not actually exist, but are used by a society to scare children into behaving properly.

If you have evidence to the contrary, present it or quit wasting our time. You are the claimant, and as such the burden of proof is on you, not us. Rules of logic there. Try to use them for a change.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  12:24:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Indeed they do, although not as described in Bram Stokers dark, little fantaisa. But police records are full of cases where murder and mutilation were committed to obtain and consume blood. Many mass murders have been called 'vampire', for example, Peter Kurtin was known as the Vampire of Dusseldorf(sp?).

I got bitten (hehe) by a sort of macabre curosity some years back and did some casual research on the subject. The myth, like many, is practicly world wide, in one form or another. One reason, I think, is that we fear the dark. Things and creatures take on a different aspect when the light fades. A dog can easily become a wolf and even trees shift their shapes. I know, as I have spent many nights in swamps and eleswhere, observing snakes and other wildlife.

Another factor is the magic qualities attributed to blood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that even the Bible has a prohibition against it's consumption. Thus, some few of the maniacal are compelled to go for it, to the weary disgust of the local cops and the delight of the news organs.

Did you know that one way of disposing of an alledged vampire is to bury the corpse at a crossroad? That way, the soul-stealer will become confused and not find it's way back to the village. Another is to bury it face down so that when it tries to dig out, it buries itself deeper. A large stone was sometimes put over the grave, just in case.

A stake through the heart was seldom, if ever, used. Instead, the heart was cut out and burned.

If a diease were to strike a village not long after someone died, especally if it were a younger person, the people might accuse the deceased of being a vampire and carry out one or more of the above.

I am a vampire, of sorts. I love blood sausage and pudding.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  12:36:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Start with reading the story of Peter Plogojowitz, Arnod Paole. Surley you have time for reading. Although busy you must not stagnate. Two great books to start with ate

The Vampire Book the Encyclopedia of the Undead. by J. Gordon Meltonn
Vampires, Burials, and Death Folklore and reality by Paul Barber

I never said I had proof they existed. Read the books then let me know what you think. Also logical.

Your story of scary children sounds more like Grimm Tales then Vampire.

Why are so many of you so tight int a%#s here. I am having a conversation to stimulate the mind, to contemplate the thoughts, to apply Science, Critical thinking, and to defend convictions. So relax read the books and let's talk about some pretty interesting tripped out shit!!!
Oh and about the evidence of Vampires well there is some substantial information that one can draw the conclusion to the probability ...
In fact look at any Goth club and you will find many. Ones that actually drink blood. But are they Revenants those who have died and returned shortly after. No. But they do drink blood.
We know the Hollywood Vampire exists because we see the movies, we read the books.
But the Supernatural, the Demonic, The revenant is a whole another matter.
So logic is used here
Just because our philosophies do not agree at times it does not mean we cannot talk, debate. Imagine being stagnate in Body, Mind, Logic, Spirit. How not living, How Dead?

Storm
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  13:54:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Why are so many of you so tight int a%#s here. I am having a conversation to stimulate the mind, to contemplate the thoughts, to apply Science, Critical thinking, and to defend convictions. So relax read the books and let's talk about some pretty interesting tripped out shit!!!



Storm most of the skeptics here are intrested in talking about fact, not tripped out ideas of reality. If you want to talk about the myths of vampires I am sure you would get more takers, but to declare they exist and not give any hard facts or evedence to back it up makes it a hard pill to swallow.

Yes, there are people that call themselves vampires, and they don't all drink blood. Some of them claim to drink the essence off of people as well. The skeptic in me says it is a shared mass dilusion. There is a name for it, but I will have to look it up.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:09:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Sure they do. Vampire bats, anyone?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:15:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Surley you have time for reading. Although busy you must not stagnate.

Yup, read. Read is good, though now I'm busy with The Demon-Haunted World, by Carl Sagan, a couple science fictions, writing my own book and actually pretending I'm a good student and learning various programming languages.

By the way... have you ever read the Universe in a Nutshell (cross-threading, sorry everyone), or the aforementioned Carl Sagan book? I think I asked you that once, if I don't, well, asking now, out of sheer curiosity. I assume you haven't, by your suggestion of that synchronous universe book. They're good, you should read them. Stephen Hawkings is a true example.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:24:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
We know the Hollywood Vampire exists because we see the movies, we read the books.


Wait, are you saying Hollywood Vampires exist as fictional or that the people who play them are imitating creatures which exist in reality?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:26:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

Sure they do. Vampire bats, anyone?

Ah yes, Desmodus , some three species, if memory serves me, covering most of Central and south America. These are perhaps the most fascinating of the bats.

Only one of these species feeds solely upon blood. The others also do insects.

These guys can scuttle about on the ground as quickly as any rodent and do a standing leap into the air as much as four or five feet high. As their feeding method is rather dangerous to the bat, these traits serve it well.

They have a very high metabolism and must feed every night. If a bat fails to feed, it could become too weak to feed the next night. It has developed a defense against this starvation: it makes friends in the colony. If a bat should fail to feed, it will approach a friend and beg. The friend will regurgetate part of it's meal for it. It won't do this for just any bat, only it's friends.

They do not suck blood, but lap it from slight cuts made with their incisors. Their saliva contains an anti-coagulent, keeping the wound flowing.

Did you know that there is also a vampire finch?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:30:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Here's something I found that might be of some interest:

http://www.zerotime.com/lostbook/vampire.htm


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2004 :  14:55:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
Wow, is there anything woo woo that Storm isn't into?

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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