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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:06:24  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
In a different thread Ricky had a link to a site that talked about Uri Geller and numerology. I found his site on the net and in it there was a link that talked about bending spoons with your mind. It reminded me of my only experience with the paranormal or at least it seemed paranormal.

About 9 years ago my parents had a neighbor that lived across the street. She read peoples auras and claimed she could bend spoon with her mind. One night she was over at my parents house and my stepfather asked if she could bend a spoon. I wanted to see this but had never asked her to do it. She went to her house and got a spoon. She showed it to us and then put her hand over the spoon. It did not look as if she touched it in any way. The top of the spoon did bend about 20 degrees down. She then passed it around. I could not bend the spoon at all with my hands. I still do not know how she did this.

I wish I could have held the spoon before she bent it and I wish she would have used one of my moms spoons instead of her own. Does anybody have any idea of how this can be faked?

Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:15:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
So she could not use one of your spoons?

Shape Memory Alloy?

"If Geller does it by divine power, he does it the hard way,"
-- James Randi on Uri Gellers spoon bending tricks


Edited by - Starman on 12/09/2004 07:19:25
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:27:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Slight of hand comes to mind: two spoons used for the demo.

When Geller first became famous, people were holding spoon-bending parties. My ex managed to drag me to one, and it was a sight to gladden the skeptical heart. They brought out a cardboard box filled with mishappened tableware and everybody grabbed some, including me.

Needless to say, everybody bent their forks and spoons, also lncluding me. Much oohing and aahing and self-congratulations. Of course, they all bent that stuff the same way I did: by hand with a bunch of rubbing and secretive bullshit added to the act.

But it was fun.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:35:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

So she could not use one of your spoons?

She claimed that she did not want to ruin my moms spoons. A rather conveinient and beleivable claim scince I doubt my mom wanted one of her spoons bent.
quote:
Shape Memory Alloy?

It is my understanding of shape memory alloys is they need a temperature change to revert back to its original shape. I don't think she could have changed the temperature significantly enough.
quote:
"If Geller does it by divine power, he does it the hard way,"
-- James Randi on Uri Gellers spoon bending tricks
There is probably more than one way to do this trick, but I do not know any of them.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:46:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

Slight of hand comes to mind: two spoons used for the demo.
This is the most likely explaination. It just bugs me that someone can fool me like that right in front of me. I have been to magic shows that are almost unbeleivable but at least they do not claim it to be anything but an illusion.

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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  07:50:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
Here a funny site on it:
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/urispoon.htm

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  08:02:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

Slight of hand comes to mind: two spoons used for the demo.
This is the most likely explaination. It just bugs me that someone can fool me like that right in front of me. I have been to magic shows that are almost unbeleivable but at least they do not claim it to be anything but an illusion.

Any halfway skilled slight-of-hand operator can fool just about anyone except another of the same who knows the gaff. Don't feel bad; I doubt if I could catch it, either.

I once saw a street magician in Las Vegas put on the most amazing show. He had a table covered with black velvet, under some fairly good lighting. He wore a tight, black, long-sleeved pullover and white, silk gloves. He worked with cards, coins , and casino chips.

I'd be willing to bet that the table and probably the shirt was filled with secret pockets, but damn my eyes if I could catch him using such. Cards and coins disappeared and reappeared, almost seeming to float in and out of existance.

He was so good that I left a twenty with him. I love a good magic act!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  09:36:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

quote:
Originally posted by Starman

So she could not use one of your spoons?

She claimed that she did not want to ruin my moms spoons. A rather conveinient and beleivable claim scince I doubt my mom wanted one of her spoons bent.
quote:
Shape Memory Alloy?

It is my understanding of shape memory alloys is they need a temperature change to revert back to its original shape. I don't think she could have changed the temperature significantly enough.
quote:
"If Geller does it by divine power, he does it the hard way,"
-- James Randi on Uri Gellers spoon bending tricks
There is probably more than one way to do this trick, but I do not know any of them.



Actually, IIRC, Randi showed how one could impart enough heat by friction to make the spoon malleable. A simple shaking whilst rubbing the spoon was enough, in Randi's case, to snap the spoon in half.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/09/2004 09:37:54
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  11:14:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
I love a good magic act. I despise people who use slight of hand to fool people into believing in the paranormal. This woman obviously knows she is decieving you - so she is nothing more than a liar. This is quite different than say Storm who believes all of this.

A good parlor trick is to take a spoon before hand and bend it back and forth many times until it is almost ready to fatigue fail. If it is done properly it will look like a regular spoon and you can even bang it against the table. Have someone hold the ends and you rub the spoon with your finger and then grasp it between your finger and thumb and just flex it slightly a few times lightly until you feel it fail. Tell the person holding it to let go because 'you can feel it getting warm'. Tell the people watching that you can feel the metal seperating and slowly relax your fingers the 2 ends of the spoon will slowly sag down and it will look like it is bending. Then dramatically let the peices fall from you finger onto the table.

Then tell them it is just a trick!

Uri doesn't do anything as crude as this he is actually fairly good at slight of hand.

PS, it takes some practice to get the feel of when the spoon is going to fail. I practiced on some spoons I got for $2 at a yard sale.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  12:07:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Alright, a couple of things here. First, as said before, check the spoon before hand. Also, video tape the act. As soon as she says, "See, its starting to bend" or something of that nature, tell her to drop the spoon. Normally the spoon will not be bent at this point. Bring another spoon for comparision, and remember that spoons are naturally bent.

If all of this fails, give her a metal rod and tell her to bend that.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  12:13:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
That reminds me of the Matrix, "there is no spoon"...

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  15:26:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Sorry Furshur to burst you bubble of despise for me but I have not give much thought to mind bending spoons. Although on the ghost field, science is more apt to believe that group of people could have a mass hallucination and that produces the phenomenon. So maybe the spoon only bends in the mind. But if masses of people can produce apparitions then why not bend a spoon. Is there any proof to Robb or Uri Gellars slight of hand?

Storm
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  16:31:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

So maybe the spoon only bends in the mind.

Gah, I can't resist.
From the Matrix:

quote:
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  16:54:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Is there any proof to Robb or Uri Gellars slight of hand?


As perviously said in the thread:

quote:
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/urispoon.htm

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 12/09/2004 17:13:01
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  17:31:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Very blurry evidence. Like you know Orb pictures No proof to me. Anyone elde for proof of uro gellars fraud?

Storm
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2004 :  18:03:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Very blurry evidence. Like you know Orb pictures No proof to me. Anyone elde for proof of uro gellars fraud?

What proof do you need? If 100 magicians can pull a rabbit out of their hat through slight of hand, why would anyone believe the 101st magician's claim that he can pull a rabbit out of his hat using real magic.

Spoon bending is a magic trick. We don't need proof that Gellar doesn't use mental powers to bend spoons, only that mental powers aren't needed to bend them. In that way, his claims become irrelevant.

The default isn't to automatically believe whatever somebody tells you, Storm. It helps to use a little discretion when evaluating claims. I mean, for Christ's sake, show a little common sense.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/09/2004 18:06:24
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