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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
 Posted - 12/07/2004 : 09:08:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Unfortunatly, we have not been treating it as such. Storm has finally given us a subject that, while involving the supernatural, is not nearly as whacko as her previous ones, once you seine out the bullshit. Even the 'goth' nonsense and Hollywoo-woo has a bit to add.
I disagree, filthy. With a title like "Do Vampires Exist?" and the suggestion that goths are extant "Hollywood Vampires" (when they're just poor imitators), it's obvious to me that there's quite a bit of woo-woo still here. After stripping it out of the thread, what's left? Perhaps some interesting tidbits about the probable origins of the myths, but I'm still at a loss as to where I'm supposed to be applying critical thought or expanding my mind. After all, neither activity is satisfied by collecting more answers for Trivial Pursuit. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 14:38:12 [Permalink]
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What a gret place this SFN. What conversation! Finally people who could think. Kinda 
I never saw myself as a fundi and never will. Yes my life is exciting that is what it is about.
I never said that vampires were just supernatural. So let us take out Goths of the modern vampire culture. Let us just call it that a vampire culture. People with long black hair going around thinking their Lestat drinking blood. This comes a long way from your Supernatural, natural ampire of the past.
Just the word alone means blood monster.
What you all could definetly get out of the book by Paul Barber is
1} Damn good read
2)the exact way a body decomposes
There is always more going on than meets the eye. Surley the Theories we hold now or the dogma of Science dis not exist although the phenomenon did?
Phenomenon Theory Theory Phenomenon Hmm...
but let us take the Vampire out of it's supernatural shell and see some of the natural causes of Vampirism. But let us not forget to return to the Supernaturaland the Anomilistc cases.
I have always been interested in Vampires and have done exstensive research. Blood drinking has been Human Kinds ritual thousands of years.
Did you know that the First Vampire was Lilith Adams first wife? How Verlchian does that sound
Anyway Lilith had a problem, she always wanted to be on top during her and Adams love making but God disagreed with that {Don't ya hate that} So Lillith became a vampire and Then we have subservant Eve. This story I believe comes out of Ancient Mesopotamia, Ur the very place our soldiers fight today. It was the evolution of the Matriarchial to the Patriarchal society.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:09:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Unfortunatly, we have not been treating it as such. Storm has finally given us a subject that, while involving the supernatural, is not nearly as whacko as her previous ones, once you seine out the bullshit. Even the 'goth' nonsense and Hollywoo-woo has a bit to add.
I disagree, filthy. With a title like "Do Vampires Exist?" and the suggestion that goths are extant "Hollywood Vampires" (when they're just poor imitators), it's obvious to me that there's quite a bit of woo-woo still here. After stripping it out of the thread, what's left? Perhaps some interesting tidbits about the probable origins of the myths, but I'm still at a loss as to where I'm supposed to be applying critical thought or expanding my mind. After all, neither activity is satisfied by collecting more answers for Trivial Pursuit.
I see your point and perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective in this thread. I do tend to wander sometimes.
Ok, I wander a lot........
But the history of, not just vampires as we know them (mostly from modern fiction writer's imaginations), but those beliefs world wide, are some of the most fascinating folklore you're apt to find. And it is so very ancient. I've small doubt that our Cro Magnon ancestors held beliefs in similiar horrors of the night.
Critical thought? Nah. Vampires as such have never existed much beyond a few bats and a bird and my ex-ol'lady. There is only the satisfaction of a starving curiosity and the compiling of interesting myths. And some of the pretty amazing actions taken against those myths.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:22:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have always been interested in Vampires and have done exstensive research. Blood drinking has been Human Kinds ritual thousands of years.
This is true. Blood has played a part in many rituals, consumed and otherwise honored. For example, the Maya chief used to pierce his foreskin with an obsidian sliver and spatter the resulting blood on a sacred paper, which was then ceremonialy burned.
But the ceremonial consumpiton of blood has nothing to do with vampirism -- monsters in the night.
The rest of what you wrote, I'm not sure I understand, so cannot comment.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 15:42:00 [Permalink]
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Does it not.? How are we defining monsters. Those who killed for God and Goddesses were they not monsters? or just religious fanatics? Maybe the two are synonymous? But yet the word monstrum comes from the Latin that which is Shown forth or revealed. So how does that definition apply to what we call, Monsters? Must We limit Monsters to only the night.
Praise the Gods!!!! I just found my next Woo-Woo Thread!!!! |
Storm |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 16:24:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Did you know that the First Vampire was Lilith Adams first wife? How Verlchian does that sound
Quite.
quote:
Anyway Lilith had a problem, she always wanted to be on top during her and Adams love making but God disagreed with that {Don't ya hate that} So Lillith became a vampire and Then we have subservant Eve.
OK, I'll bite (hehe), where did you get this story? |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 17:05:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Does it not.? How are we defining monsters. Those who killed for God and Goddesses were they not monsters? or just religious fanatics? Maybe the two are synonymous? But yet the word monstrum comes from the Latin that which is Shown forth or revealed. So how does that definition apply to what we call, Monsters? Must We limit Monsters to only the night.
Praise the Gods!!!! I just found my next Woo-Woo Thread!!!!
This ougthta be good........
As we are discussing vampires, after a fashion, the definition should be a creature of the night resurrected from the dead, that can only be made dead again through extraordinary means. A living, vertabrate bloodsucker, aside from a few bats and a bird and my ex ol'lady is no more than a human lunatic or the wannabe of a myth. Pathetic as much as monsterous and can be nicely subdued by simple violence.
If you keep expanding the definition, you lose the subject.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 17:16:37 [Permalink]
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I must say I disagree with expanding the subject. So let's talk about the word Monstrous that which is shown forth revealed ?
Hmm can we label Science Monstrous ? God? |
Storm |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 17:39:22 [Permalink]
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Well from Folklore, Biblical literature and Epics comes the legend of Lillith. We find her in the Epic of Gilgamesh 2000 A. D. as a Vampire Demoness, She is sighted briefly in Isaiah. Then we find what I mentioned about her in the Talmud you yourselves can read maybe with a significant other and discuss the reasoning the whole domonant position problem. She was said to have married Asmodeous the Christian Demon of lust. |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 17:46:27 [Permalink]
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Alrighty then, let's verlch off in a new direction. This one wasn't gaining much ground, anyway.
So, what precisly, do you consider monsterous and do you have any rankings or degrees of monsterness (is that a word)?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 18:03:55 [Permalink]
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Well do you want to discuss the meaning of the word itself? Maybe the definition has some symbolism behind it. Psychologically monsters can manifest in the form of guilt , regret, fear, berievement,almost a showing forth or revealing of ones psychological state or we can call what the GP or general public think of as monsters like demons, fallen angels, boogieman, etc? then of course we could talk about another subject that is somewhat taken serious by scientists and skeptics alike because it is provable Cryptozoology or the study of hidden animals like nessie, bigfoot, etc.
You decide? |
Storm |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 18:17:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Well do you want to discuss the meaning of the word itself? Maybe the definition has some symbolism behind it. Psychologically monsters can manifest in the form of guilt , regret, fear, berievement,almost a showing forth or revealing of ones psychological state or we can call what the GP or general public think of as monsters like demons, fallen angels, boogieman, etc? then of course we could talk about another subject that is somewhat taken serious by scientists and skeptics alike because it is provable Cryptozoology or the study of hidden animals like nessie, bigfoot, etc.
You decide?
It's your thread, hon. I need your definition before I can voice an opinion.
Say, are you related to Kent Hovind?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2004 : 18:21:53 [Permalink]
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Hey listen Filthy I have started I think I started Four posts if not more So you decide? What's on your mind Let us keep it clean especially with a name or handle you call filthy. Psychological boring.... Supernatural pretty dam cool.... Cryptozoology very interesting oh the possibilities....
You decide...
There I go again with those elippess...
Ah the mind of a Great thinker... |
Storm |
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