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 Who was first?
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latinijral
Banned

197 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  13:11:42  Show Profile Send latinijral a Private Message
It is easy to some skpetics to think that they are the owner of the truth.


I want to know your opinion about a simple example and the reasons to pick your option, or a new option.


Who was first?

The egg or the chicken?

Father of the new skepticism

Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"!

Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  13:56:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral

It is easy to some skpetics to think that they are the owner of the truth. I want to know your opinion about a simple example and the reasons to pick your option, or a new option.
Who was first? The egg or the chicken?


The egg comes from the chicken as they are one biological unit, (until the chicken lays the egg.) The modern chicken was bred though artificial selection to produce a higher egg yield, or in the case of frying chickens, more meat. Free range chickens are likely healthier to eat. The modern barnyard chicken evolved from an earlier wild ancestor. More information is available here:
http://www.lifesci.utexas.edu/courses/mcmurry/spring98/1/james.html
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  13:59:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Oh dearie me; here we go again.

It's the egg. The egg was probably first produced in the Precambrian seas and in no way resembeled the one I poached for my breakfast this morning. It probably wouldn't have tasted as good, either.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  22:10:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
The staggering ignorance implied by the very question is mindboggling.

If you'd like some basic web references related to either evolution or critical thinking, I'd be happy to provide them for you.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  22:11:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Oh, and once again...


What is the "new" skepticism, and what qualifies you to be it's father?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2004 :  23:11:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Oh, and once again...


What is the "new" skepticism, and what qualifies you to be it's father?





That question is simple, Dude. He got booted out by the real skeptics.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  01:15:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Oh, and once again...
What is the "new" skepticism, and what qualifies you to be it's father?
That question is simple, Dude. He got booted out by the real skeptics.
If you don't understand a cool word that you want to use you have to invent a new meaning for it...

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  06:40:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
The egg. The only way the chicken could have come first is if it 'poofed' into existence.

If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  06:52:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Well according to 4 out of 5 people, It did just Poof into existance. How sad is that.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Peptide
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  10:22:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Peptide a Private Message
Which came first, the chicken or the egg . . . .

The egg rolls over on his back and lights a cigarette. He leans across the bed and says the to the chicken, "Well, I guess that answers that question."

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  11:41:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral

It is easy to some skpetics to think that they are the owner of the truth.


And you have reason to believe this is the case here......why?

Sounds like you're just pissed off that no one will take your word for the serious allegations against James Randi which you have forwarded here without supplying proof for them.

quote:

I want to know your opinion about a simple example and the reasons to pick your option, or a new option.


Who was first?

The egg or the chicken?



I'd say the the great archmage Smizzlefritz said "Presto" and lo from his great Hat of Summoning (+5 poultry), he produced the first chicken.

In reality, it is most likely that a pre-poultric, egg-laying ancestor gave rise to the first chicken through millions of years of evolution. Therefore, in a really twisted sense of the word, the egg came first in an over-simplified view of things.

Things in the world are rarely black and white.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/13/2004 11:42:07
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Peptide
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  13:21:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Peptide a Private Message
I guess I should include a serious answer as well.

Since other birds existed before the chicken, it is most obviously the egg that came first.

Going farther back, birds are the descendants of egg laying dinosaurs, so again the egg comes first.

The line goes all the way back to fish, which also lay eggs. Us mammals, ignoring the monotremes for the moment, decided that calcified eggs weren't all they were cracked up to be, so we incubate our eggs internally.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  13:39:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Peptide

I guess I should include a serious answer as well.

Since other birds existed before the chicken, it is most obviously the egg that came first.

Going farther back, birds are the descendants of egg laying dinosaurs, so again the egg comes first.

The line goes all the way back to fish, which also lay eggs. Us mammals, ignoring the monotremes for the moment, decided that calcified eggs weren't all they were cracked up to be, so we incubate our eggs internally.

Mmmmm. Poached echidna egg with bacon and a side of grits......


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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