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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  14:54:44  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
The Intelligent(?) Design cretins seem to have won one, maybe.

quote:
Why isn't Phillip Johnson celebrating?

Followers of the battles over evolution know Johnson, an emeritus law professor at UC Berkeley, as an intellectual godfather of intelligent design. The movement, whose advocates dismiss Darwinism in favor of a guiding intelligence behind the complexity of life, seems to have won a landmark victory. In an apparent national first, the school board in the small town of Dover, Penn., mandated in October that intelligent design be taught in the classroom.

The board's action came 13 years after Johnson published his seminal "Darwin on Trial," a book that launched the intelligent-design movement and caused Nobel-winning physicist Steven Weinberg to label Johnson "the most respectable academic critic of evolution."



But I wonder; what qualifies an emeritus law professor to pass judgment on the Theory of Evolution? Where are the bologists that disagree with it?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  15:09:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
I think I am going to have to raise the skeptic alertness level to "Completely Daft"

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  15:12:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

But I wonder; what qualifies an emeritus law professor to pass judgment on the Theory of Evolution? Where are the bologists that disagree with it?




It's the school board that passed judgement. Until a national standard is set. You'll see more battles like this.

My only questions is who is gonna write the text book.




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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  15:15:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic

I think I am going to have to raise the skeptic alertness level to "Completely Daft"

@

I thought we passed that one when verlch signed up....

Ok, that was uncalled for. Apologies to verlch; sorry bro, but I couldn't resist it. I promise to try harder in the future.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  15:27:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

But I wonder; what qualifies an emeritus law professor to pass judgment on the Theory of Evolution? Where are the bologists that disagree with it?




It's the school board that passed judgement. Until a national standard is set. You'll see more battles like this.

My only questions is who is gonna write the text book.

True, but again I ask; where are the biologists that helped them to decide?

I think that the text book has been in the works for a long time. I'll bet they'll have one soon.

What might become of an bright child who gets to college with a headfull of this crap and wants to study the natural sciences, like zoology? (S)he'll be a thousand miles behind before the start of class. I would not like to be an instructor with a student such as this.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  16:11:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Sad, no? I guess the biologists are busy, violently ignoring ID in hopes it'll go away.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  16:43:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
There are many biologists who speak out about this nonsense and who try to help the public obtain some minimal level of scientific literacy.

They are, however, vastly outnumberd by the religious morons of the world.

Anyone read the Sunday comics? If so, does your paper print "Get Fuzzy" ? This last sunday's strip was hilarious...

"Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it true."

"Yeah, but it makes stupid people think it's true, stupid."

http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20041212.html


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  17:24:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

Sad, no? I guess the biologists are busy, violently ignoring ID in hopes it'll go away.



This is where Reggie and I on IG fully agreed. Ignoring ID theory will not make it go away. We either have to face these people head on or lose.

tk
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2004 :  18:25:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Yes, ID must be countered with reality at every opportunity.

The problem, as I have stated, is that scientific literacy is extremely low in the US(compared to most other industrialized nations, and I can't find the link to stats on this... apologies. it will be posted if I can find it), and those of us who can recognize ID for the trash it is are seriously outnumbered by those who want to preach it, and we are hindered by the remainder of the population who are just apathetic on the issue.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2004 :  07:49:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rubicon95 a Private Message
ID might be a nice Theological take on the evolutionary process. It is however a theological view and has no place in public schools perhaps private and parochial.

Since this school board is mandating the teaching of ID, would they then screen ID teachers on their theology. Would they allow a Muslim, or Hindu, or Sikh teach ID?

One thought (and I may be committing blasphemy).

If YEC's and Creationist discount how evolutionary theory has been formulated by stating that processes in archeology are unreliable (C14 dating in particular), wouldn't they shoot themselves in the foot if they needed to use the same processes to prove the date of the early gospels?

Just wondering...



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2004 :  08:19:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95

ID might be a nice Theological take on the evolutionary process. It is however a theological view and has no place in public schools perhaps private and parochial.

Since this school board is mandating the teaching of ID, would they then screen ID teachers on their theology. Would they allow a Muslim, or Hindu, or Sikh teach ID?

One thought (and I may be committing blasphemy).

If YEC's and Creationist discount how evolutionary theory has been formulated by stating that processes in archeology are unreliable (C14 dating in particular), wouldn't they shoot themselves in the foot if they needed to use the same processes to prove the date of the early gospels?

Just wondering...

Hell, hose turkeys shoot themselves in the foot all the time. But like the Energizer Bunny, they keep going and going and... so forth. Idiots they might be, but they are well organized idiots and highly vocal.

The problem is not so much with them, but with the ill-educated people who buy into their fantasies. And also, we are to blame because we let them get away with spreading their trash.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2004 :  08:28:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
And also, we are to blame because we let them get away with spreading their trash.



I do what I can, and if they try to bring that trash to public schools where I live I'll surely be at the schoolboard mettings and trying to speak.

And yes R95, I agree with you. ID has no place in the science classrooms of public schools. I should find it's home in private religious schools and theology classrooms.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2004 :  09:14:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141431,00.html

ACLU files suit over ID being given as an 'alternate theory' in PA

It seems this isnt going to end anytime soon and it also seems like its happening more often.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2004 :  07:58:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95

One thought (and I may be committing blasphemy).

If YEC's and Creationist discount how evolutionary theory has been formulated by stating that processes in archeology are unreliable (C14 dating in particular), wouldn't they shoot themselves in the foot if they needed to use the same processes to prove the date of the early gospels?



Heck no, take the Shroud of Turin for example. RC dating shows it to originate from somewhere in the 14th century instead of 1975 years ago. That just shows you can't thrust those measurements huh?
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2004 :  08:52:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
In an apparent national first, the school board in the small town of Dover, Penn., mandated in October that intelligent design be taught in the classroom. (Emph. mine)


But how the hell do you teach ID or creationism? The lesson has to be the simplest thing on earth: "Today, class, we're going to learn about the diversity of life on earth. It was all created by a magical being which may or may not have been the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh. OK, class dismissed."

Once you remove nature from the equation, you're left with nothing to study!


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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2004 :  10:03:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
I'll refer you to the massive thread started by JerryB.

In it he explains the bad science, corrupt statistics, and outright lies that would make up a course in ID.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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