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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2004 : 20:35:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Expelled energy I think so. How it works is another matter one in which I hope to prove one day.
I can hardly wait.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/17/2004 20:41:15 |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2004 : 18:46:36 [Permalink]
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Dave would you be happy if I immediately came back and gave you an answer? Don't think I am not studying physics 101. But it takes time. If we as humans are energy or energey is within us than what exactly happens to that when we die? Does it just cease? or does it just slowly dissapate. Einstein himslef believed that energy does not die but get dispersed. What would be the diiference? I believe that I am beyond a wild speculation. Let us not forget how long it took Science to where it is now. Although no-one likes it here there is plenty of evidence of Ghostly phenomenon ancedotal as it may be. So much so that scientfic investigation began in the late 1800's with the Ghost club, Society for Psychic Research. Let us not forget to put aside the conscious living Soul, conscious life after death. Let us leave that to religion. Although I find it fascinating to talk about the different Heavens or Hells
In the Germanic and Nordic tradition Hell was not a bad place but a place where the dead other than fallen warriors went.
So answer the questions I am asking. Does the energy just cease, does it expell. Is there a burst of energy at death that causes this phenomenon. I am not talking about scale weighing either.
Maybe upon a tragic event that "last breath" holds so much negative energy that when let out gets sucked into the environment. Hence some of your replay hauntings.It would be very hard to measure this enegergy given the uhh circumstances.
It has to do with energy...
Yes, I feel it is Energy...
Claude Bernard wrote that everything purposeful in scientific thinking begins with feeling... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2004 : 20:38:36 [Permalink]
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Let's say there's a guy out on a hike who falls off a cliff in the middle of a huge forest. When he hits the ground, he dies.
His kinetic energy is absorbed by the ground under him, heating it ever so slightly (this heat later dissapates).
His potential energy slowly drops, as pieces of him are eaten, and others crumble to dust.
His thermal energy also dissapates slowly, which is why cops can estimate time of death using the temperature of the liver.
Some of his chemical energy will spontaneously convert to heat, as weak chemical bonds break, while most of it will be used by other animals, plants and microbes as they eat him.
There's no physics concept of "negative energy," except perhaps as a lack of energy which should be somewhere. Thus, last breaths do not hold "negative energy," but actually positive energy (as heat and the other energies mentioned above).
Until you can define what sort of energy you are talking about, you are firmly within "wild speculation." Just because other things have taken a long time to understand doesn't mean that what you're talking about will ever be science. Over 100 years of ghostly investigations have resulted in precisely zero new scientific laws, theories or hypotheses. The nature of science is to generate new explanations about how the universe works, but the paranormal field has generated no useful explanations at all. Yet look at how much science has advanced in just the last 50 years.
And what you're neglecting, Storm, with regard to Claude Bernard, is that everything purposeful in any sort of thinking begins with feeling. What he wrote was this:...we must of necessity go down to objective reality..... In the search for truth by the experimental method, feeling always takes the lead: it begets the a priori idea or intuition: reasoning develops the idea and deduces its logical consequences. But if feeling must be clarified by reason, reason must in turn be guided by experiment. Yes, scientific advance begins with an intuition, but this is then refined by reason and logic, and ultimately steered towards objective reality through experimentation. Bernard wasn't suggesting that feelings are valid scientific treatises.
The man probably would have found your use of his words to be distasteful, as he was one of the early champions of biology as a deterministic science, and disagreed with the idea that a "vital force" permeates living beings. His goal was to turn medicine into a field which followed the scientific method.
For more on Bernard, see: |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2004 : 21:05:40 [Permalink]
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Distasteful I think not. You are talking about kinetic energy. in this dissapation might be the evidence to ghostly phenomenon. Have we measured this. Pieces of our life energy dissapating dispersing. I think not enough studies are done to test this. Many still hold on to associating ghosts with the conscious living soul of a deceased person. of couse we can see why because most experiences have been of apparations of those once living.
While you think the evidence of ghosts has not been shown.. I do not agree... it is in The numereous ancedotal stories that have been acuired that we need to begin. Did you see my prediction for all of you this year? |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2004 : 21:31:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Actually they now think low levels of sarin were responsible for gulf-war syndrome. If you give science time and actually read, it tends to work every time.
Actually, I've heard that Gulf War Syndrome is probably related to the use of Depleted Uranium projectiles used in tank rounds, tank armor, anti-tank weapons of all kinds, to the tune of many, many tons
(http://www.iacenter.org/du-warcrime.htm - a good link about DU in Iraq) The radioactive fallout in the exploded shells and pierced DU armor, though low level, can become deadly when ingested or breathed in or drunk, or eventually eaten in local food. It causes many maladies, not the least of which is serious birth defects, cancers, lung problems, and so on. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2004 : 22:48:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Distasteful I think not.
Well, you're using his words in nearly the opposite fashion he intended them. Wouldn't you find that distasteful?quote:
You are talking about kinetic energy. in this dissapation might be the evidence to ghostly phenomenon. Have we measured this.
Have we measured it? Of course. We can calculate exactly how much kinetic energy a falling person would gain during the fall, and we can calculate where that energy will go when the fall ends. And for the purposes of this discussion, it's the same amount of kinetic energy a lifeless rock weighing the same as the person would contain if dropped from the same cliff, and it would dissapate in the same way. Do you really not know what "kinetic energy" means?quote:
Pieces of our life energy dissapating dispersing. I think not enough studies are done to test this.
No studies will be done to test it until you can define the term "life energy," and tell the scientists how it differs from the energies we already have defined and can measure, none of them having behaviours which could explain what you want them to.quote:
Many still hold on to associating ghosts with the conscious living soul of a deceased person. of couse we can see why because most experiences have been of apparations of those once living.
Did I say anything about this here?quote:
While you think the evidence of ghosts has not been shown.. I do not agree... it is in The numereous ancedotal stories that have been acuired that we need to begin.
Begin? Begin?!? Absolutely. After more than 100 years of collecting anecdotal "evidence," the field has not even begun to do science with it. No testable hypotheses, no repeatable experiments, nothing.quote:
Did you see my prediction for all of you this year?
Yes, and if you say that there's already tons of evidence, it's like predicting that people will drink coffee in 2005. A no-brainer: a prediction of the obvious, which I specifically said should not be offered. On the other hand, if you mean something else by "evidence" in either of these threads, I suggest you precisely define how you're using the word in these different cases. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 06:35:52 [Permalink]
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| I do not have proof of the life energey yet but I will not stop from that theory. The difference between a tea pot and a human is that life force and it is up to me to go with that So it is up to me to research that and I will. How am I using his words opposite? I did not quote him as saying all that matters is feeling and intuition. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 06:40:53 [Permalink]
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| Just as the alchemists are still trying to convert copper (or whatever other element, I forget) into gold... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 10:19:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I do not have proof of the life energey yet but I will not stop from that theory.
It's not a theory until you can use it to make predictions about what will happen under certain circumstances, and have done so successfully many times. As I said, it is wild speculation.quote:
The difference between a tea pot and a human is that life force and it is up to me to go with that
Ironically, Claude Bernard rejected the idea of a life force as you describe it.quote:
So it is up to me to research that and I will.
Please do. It will be interesting to see if you can show where biologists went wrong 100 years ago. See, before then, all of them believed in a "life force" which differentiated animate from inanimate, too. Why did they forsake the idea, so long ago? Why are you (and others) attempting to resurrect it?quote:
How am I using his words opposite? I did not quote him as saying all that matters is feeling and intuition.
Bernard was a strict scientist. You're attempting to use a small part of his description of the process of science to reject that process. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 10:36:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Siberia, its lead (1 proton/electron away from gold).
Thanks! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 17:04:03 [Permalink]
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| Ricky I do not know those answers. But from talking to you all and doing the research that I have already accomplished I think it might have to do with our life energy. How have we measured this dispertion of energy when we die. Say for instance a murder scene.Some ghosts are seen at places where a great tragedy has taken place like a murder, suicide. Have we measured if there is a change in the environment on the last breath of this victim. I do not think so. So we do not know if it is effected or not. This life force you mentioned are we talking about a conscious force? I think in Star Wars the life force was the will of the mind. I don't think most of the ghost sightings are willfull or conscious. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2004 : 18:56:56 [Permalink]
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| Yeah well What can I tell you. One day I will prove it... |
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Topic Locked
