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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2005 : 01:46:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimrobb
A postscript. I maintain a blog for skeptics, like myself, who are nevertheless searching for a reasonable spiritually. And perhaps have found one. It's called www.SkepticsClub.com. Tonight I've posted my first real attempt to tackle the Tsunami catastrophe. It's the top post. Check it out, you who are interested.
From the blog:quote:
So the Young Master states two things emphatically. First, atrocities and natural disasters are not sent to punish wicked people.
Oh really? Here are some quotes from Jesus according to Matthew and interpretations from the Skeptic's Annotated Bible.The first half I went to the passages, the second half are as the annotated site describes the passages.quote:
Matthew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (10:34-36) Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." Yet elsewhere in the New Testament Jesus is said to bring peace.
Jehovah's Witnesses use these verses to justify forcing members to disfellowship (shun) their own family.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
There's so much in the Annotated Bible it's hard to pick just a few passages.
If you have a text that says anything and everything it's easy to pick a passage for any purpose. But you aren't interpreting quotes from the Bible, you are finding quotes that make the Bible what your wishful thinking makes it. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 06:05:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
If you have a text that says anything and everything it's easy to pick a passage for any purpose. But you aren't interpreting quotes from the Bible, you are finding quotes that make the Bible what your wishful thinking makes it.
Quote Mining? A useful, but dishonest, approach in all faith based endeavors. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 07:55:56 [Permalink]
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Beskeptical.
Using a Skeptic Annotated Bible is akin to a Biblical annotated tome of Evolution. It doesn't fly.
The examples given were so grossly taken out of context that even a non-biblical scholar could see it was wrong. May I recommend that you read the chapters before posting.
If I used the same process on evolution, or atheism, or freethinkers, I would be rightly smacked down. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 08:19:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
Using a Skeptic Annotated Bible is akin to a Biblical annotated tome of Evolution. It doesn't fly.
Tome of Evolution?
There would be nothing wrong with critical comments to a scientific theory. It has already been done, and no biblical criticism had to my knowledge any merit.quote:
The examples given were so grossly taken out of context that even a non-biblical scholar could see it was wrong.
Then a few of these easy to see errors with corrections would be nice. (Yes I'm sure that they exist but now it is your claim.)
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:28:39 [Permalink]
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Yes, I know the SAB.
I have not yet seen anything dishonest on the site, even if I don't agree with everything there.
Care to back up your accusation?
It is certainly critical to the KJV bible, even if it do acknowledge some good stuff in it.
We are all busy, but you can at least show us one(1) example of the errors you claimed in your previous post, and one(1) example of dishonesty (not just an error) on the SAB site.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 10:14:50 [Permalink]
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Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
KJV reads
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+24&version=nkj&showtools=0
SAB focuses and highlights v37 -
Where does it read that Jesus has no issue with drowning people? what about v38 which explains 37?
Maybe there was a hidden meaning? If that is the case, then why not like Strongs Concordance or Biblical Commentaries cross refernce other parts of scriptures to back it up.
Or maybe the commentary on the SAB was just lazy, dishonest. And you are doing a disservice to yourself and your position by using it.
Here's a quote for you
"Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man."
Darwin from Origin of the Species.
Does this mean that Darwin was for eugenics?
Did I just quotemine? DAMN STRAIGHT You can say that is was taken out of context. You' betcha it was!..To prove a point. Any moron with an agenda can do that and put there 2 bits on it.
BTW. the website I got it from was http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/darwin.shtml and no it was not anti-Darwin. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 11:20:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Did I just quotemine? DAMN STRAIGHT You can say that is was taken out of context. You' betcha it was!..To prove a point. Any moron with an agenda can do that and put there 2 bits on it.
Quotemining can be used more than one way. If you include enough of the quote so that the context is apparent, or include a brief description of the context, it's not a dishonest excercise.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 11:39:19 [Permalink]
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I agree Dude.
My Darwin quote is a cheap shot and dishonest. True he wrote those words..along with a whole lot before and after. My failure to present that other info is "Pulling a Bush"
That is my contention with the quotes use in this thread from the SAB.
If you can accept a dishonest commentary on a quote on the Bible, why not with other topics? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 12:03:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
Where does it read that Jesus has no issue with drowning people? what about v38 which explains 37?
Matthew 24:37-44 is clearly a cautionary tale, saying "back in the time of Noah, people were having lots of fun, and didn't even see the Flood coming when it killed them - and when the Son of Man returns, many will die in a similar fashion." Those verses don't seem to record whether or not Jesus felt regret about such things, they're just stated matter-of-factly. One might think that God should express some sort of emotion over this - perhaps like "I don't enjoy that people are going to be blind to their sins and die for them, but it's the way it has to be" - and the lack of regret may be what is driving the inference that Jesus had "no problem" with it.
Just a thought. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 12:41:37 [Permalink]
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I disagree Dude. The day was like any other day and people were caught un-prepared. So as will be with the Son of Man's return. Sudden and Suprising. and then comes the Judgement. No lawyers, no appeals, no plea bargains.
And it is bloody well frightening. We all want justice but do we truly want justice for all that we've done (and not done) in our life.
I think (if I really read into it) There were warnings Heck Noah had a big yacht. Was he just keeping up with the Jones? - Ever hear Bill Cosby's Noah routine. Hilarious
(ooo boss just gave me sushi yum) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 12:51:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
I disagree Dude.
You mean Dave_W.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 12:53:53 [Permalink]
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AIUGH!!!!!
The brain sucking leach in my head is dying of malnutrition. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 13:45:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
So as will be with the Son of Man's return.
Or he will never come back and we'll just forever be threatened with his return from believers.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/08/2005 14:19:32 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 14:23:51 [Permalink]
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Rubicon95, you seemed to be arguing against the SAB's interpretation of Jesus' moral view of the Flood and eventual Return, in that you are under the impression that there's no way to see those verses as saying "Jesus didn't have a problem with the Flood." I offered one possibility of how one might be able to connect those dots, and don't see where your reply addresses that at all.
Because it seems really obvious that Jesus was saying "watch your ass, or you'll get punished, too." Matthew 24:43-44 is quite clear on this. "Don't let your guard down," Jesus is warning, "be ever-vigilant for your eternal soul, because you don't know (and I'm not saying - see Matthew 24:36) when I'll be back, but then it'll be Judgement time."quote:
I think (if I really read into it) There were warnings...
Matthew 24:39 is unambiguous in saying that Jesus thinks that you and Bill Cosby are wrong. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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