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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  07:24:30  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Doppelgänger is the German word for a ghostly double of a living person. The word comes from doppel meaning "double" and gänger translated as "goer".

But do Doppelgängers actually exist? We know from talk of False Memory how complicated and vast the human brain is....
We know that Stress, depression, grief can cause one to hallucinate.. but can that hallucination be transposed onto the environment so others get glimpses of it? Is a Doppelgänger the same as Astral projection, bi-location..
Look at people live D.D. Hume,Emilie Sage. I too have had an experience with a Doppelgänger... I too have experienced bi-location...seeing my body laying on the couch while I looked out the window... There is so much that we do not know about the human mind and its abilities...
Is only it's abilities contained within... or can it transpose images, self onto the environment...

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  07:32:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Doppelgänger is the German word for a ghostly double of a living person. The word comes from doppel meaning "double" and gänger translated as "goer".

But do Doppelgängers actually exist? We know from talk of False Memory how complicated and vast the human brain is....
We know that Stress, depression, grief can cause one to hallucinate.. but can that hallucination be transposed onto the environment so others get glimpses of it? Is a Doppelgänger the same as Astral projection, bi-location..
Look at people live D.D. Hume,Emilie Sage. I too have had an experience with a Doppelgänger... I too have experienced bi-location...seeing my body laying on the couch while I looked out the window... There is so much that we do not know about the human mind and its abilities...
Is only it's abilities contained within... or can it transpose images, self onto the environment...


*Sigh*
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  07:42:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Cune your so damm closed minded sometimes!!!! What did it take you one second to respond.... Have you ever tried in a meditative state to will your image somewhere else? Have you never had an outer body experience? Why do you close your mind to the possibilities of the mind?
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  08:19:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Cune your so damm closed minded sometimes!!!!
I wouldn't say I'm close-minded. However, over time I've become suspect of certain things. I imagine you have, too. Were I to tell you that there is an alien from the planet X'ygr^razh sitting next to me as I type, you'd be skeptical of the claim.
quote:
Have you ever tried in a meditative state to will your image somewhere else? Have you never had an outer body experience? Why do you close your mind to the possibilities of the mind?
Perhaps, when I was ten or fifteen or something, I tried such a thing. Doubtlessly without success, else I'd have a different attitude.

It makes me laugh that you ask "Have you never had an outer body experience?" as though most people have such things. I'm not even sure what that means. If I go "out-of-body" can I walk around? Can I sleep but also go to class and take notes? Can I engage in voyeuristic activities with my super-hot neighbor? Can I go to Florida and visit you while you hunt ghosts?

More importantly: if I now try and have an out-of-body experience and it fails, will you accept that there's no such thing, or will I have to suffer some well, you weren't trying hard enough excuse?

PS How did the job review go?
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  08:47:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
The Job review went great .. the amount of monetary raise wel that's questionable.. but a raise no less..
Well did you or didn't you have an experience... perhaps and doubt do not cut it....

Originally posted by Cune

quote:
It makes me laugh that you ask "Have you never had an outer body experience?" as though most people have such things. I'm not even sure what that means. If I go "out-of-body" can I walk around? Can I sleep but also go to class and take notes? Can I engage in voyeuristic activities with my super-hot neighbor? Can I go to Florida and visit you while you hunt ghosts?




Well.. it is the perception of ones self outside of its body... for example... When I was 16 I was waiting for my sister to come and hang out with me... I was tired so I laid on couch and closed my eyes.... I began to feel heavy.. very heavy... then the next thing I knew I was looking out the living room window...waiting for my sister... I see her pull up, get out of the car and walked toward the door. as she came in I turned and saw myself lying on the couch.... Next thing I knew she was waking me on the couch....

I never really liked the feeling that was associated with it.. the heaviness.. It has happened numerous times after that incident.. but know when I Sleep if I feel that heaviness I make myself wake.. until it goes away... It occurs mostly during a nap.. not nite time sleep.. It feels as if my body is completely asleep.. in fact I can feel its twitches but my mind is still so active...
So try it and let me know... If it doesn't work than you suck at it and you do not know how to do it.... Only joking Just like the phenomenon of ghosts I believe some people have to be a Sensitive to experience it... You know like some people excel in field better than the other... Some people lead some people follow... Some people are Sensitives some are not... You should know in studies of different cultures that there were those who were these sensatives, shamans. Who were they in the ancient cities you study now?
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serendipitypublishing
Skeptic Friend

60 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  08:48:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit serendipitypublishing's Homepage Send serendipitypublishing a Private Message
To have an outer body experience is impossible. The thought implies thinking about the body to escape it.

Perhaps, to forget the body and its demands just for an instant will give you an "outer body experience". Your awareness of the body will return but you will see it in a different light than before. This is my interpretation of how great meditators have experienced the self without the body.

You can develop this over an entire lifetime, stilling your mind to reach that Nirvana but that's hard work. However to give up value of the body means to accept the true source of life, i.e. the spirit, and that's easy work. The body then becomes useful to communicate to minds which are still in doubt.

There is a saying that once this is experienced you are longer so atttached gifts of the body. Everything then stems from your belief of who you are.

[Were I to tell you that there is an alien from the planet X ygr^razh sitting next to me as I type, you d be skeptical of the claim.

Cune, say hello from me and ask him/her/it to give you a neck massage to release some of that tension.

'I didn't fail, I just found 2000 ways of how not to do it', Thomas Edison

'We're all in the gutter but some of us are looking up at the stars'
Oscar Wilde

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeflowpyramids/
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  08:48:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Storm:
I too have had an experience with a Doppelgänger... I too have experienced bi-location...seeing my body laying on the couch while I looked out the window... There is so much that we do not know about the human mind and its abilities...
Is only it's abilities contained within... or can it transpose images, self onto the environment...

Look here and here.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  09:21:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

The Job review went great .. the amount of monetary raise wel that's questionable.. but a raise no less..
Well did you or didn't you have an experience... perhaps and doubt do not cut it....


Then no, I did not ever have an out-of-body experience. However, seeing as how my upstairs neighbor is really hot, I would like to be able to have that voyeuristic experience so I'll try again when I get home...
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  09:32:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

quote:
Originally posted by Storm

The Job review went great .. the amount of monetary raise wel that's questionable.. but a raise no less..
Well did you or didn't you have an experience... perhaps and doubt do not cut it....


Then no, I did not ever have an out-of-body experience. However, seeing as how my upstairs neighbor is really hot, I would like to be able to have that voyeuristic experience so I'll try again when I get home...



Or you could buy her flowers...

quote:
Just like the phenomenon of ghosts I believe some people have to be a Sensitive to experience it... You know like some people excel in field better than the other


This statement here makes it impossible to test, as any negative test you could just say, "It wasn't the right person." So no matter how much contradictory evidence we give you, it will not show this to be false.

Please tell me you see the problem with that...

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  09:40:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I definetly see your point Ricky.... you are absolutely right... maybe we all could do these things with our minds... It is so vast.. Why limlit it! Great sits Kil...
So Cune if it does not work out with the neighbor are you going to be convinced the phenomenon doesn't happen... Can ya take me seriously for once...
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  09:56:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I definetly see your point Ricky.... you are absolutely right... maybe we all could do these things with our minds... It is so vast.. Why limlit it! Great sits Kil...
So Cune if it does not work out with the neighbor are you going to be convinced the phenomenon doesn't happen... Can ya take me seriously for once...


Yes-- I'll takr you seriously. But as Ricky noted, there's no way to test the whole out-of-body thing as anyone who fails to do so can simply be dismissed as "not sensitive." Incidentally, this strategy is used by Christians when they beg atheists to let God in their heart. The challenge is simple-- if I ask God to come into my heart but he doesn't then there's no God. But the Christian will always write off God's failure to reveal Himself as the fault of the athiest for nor really wanting it. *sigh*
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  10:53:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
I had an OBE when I was 17. It kind of freaked me out a little, and it was sort of fun at the same time. Like a roller coaster ride. At the time I did not know what to make of it, now I do. The brain receives constant input from the body, which helps to orient it in space and defines the boundaries our bodies occupy in it. Most everyone has a very good sense of were their feet or hands are located even when we can't see them. This sense of where your body is located in space is obviously important for simple every day movement. Without it you would constantly bang your shoulders or hips into doorways, or stub your toes etc...
When the brain looses to much input from the body (due to exhaustion, drugs, meditation etc..) it loses it's "location" in space and you have the feeling of leaving your body, or possibly even the feeling of being "everywhere" all at once. This feeling can be induced into anyone by a neurologist in a laboratory. That same neurologist could induce a "religious experience" by stimulating an area of the frontal cortex.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  11:00:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm



Well.. it is the perception of ones self outside of its body... for example... When I was 16 I was waiting for my sister to come and hang out with me... I was tired so I laid on couch and closed my eyes.... I began to feel heavy.. very heavy... then the next thing I knew I was looking out the living room window...waiting for my sister... I see her pull up, get out of the car and walked toward the door. as she came in I turned and saw myself lying on the couch.... Next thing I knew she was waking me on the couch....



Maybe you just fell asleep and dreamed it?

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  11:13:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
I tell you right now if this thread turns into SP and Storm discussing ghosts dreaming about out of body experiences, I think I'm going to scream.

I thought I had an out of body experience once, but then I noticed the part in my hair was on the wrong side and realized the truth.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  11:23:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
furshur made a funny!

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2005 :  12:28:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I definetly see your point Ricky.... you are absolutely right... maybe we all could do these things with our minds... It is so vast.. Why limlit it!

Why expand it?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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