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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
 Posted - 02/05/2005 : 14:00:18
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http://evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?s=d634fe24dd6741a9ae5b523e7eb4ca26&showforum=2
A double standard at the forum. Oh well, figured it was going to happen sooner or later. A Christian can call atheists/agnostics fools, but an atheist/agnostic did it, we'd get banned.
I like, though, how this Christian hides behind the Bible to call us fools to try to get away with it. Ironically, the forum STILL says no ad hominem attacks.
tk
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 14:12:57 [Permalink]
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What I notice more and more, especially in these kind of forums, is that creationists often have a very hard time discerning what an argument actually is. I often get the feeling that they don't really not want to back up their statement, they just don't understand the difference between making a random assertion and backing up your statement. They don't really want to make ad-homs, they just don't understand the difference between criticizing an argument, criticizing a person and making ad-homs.
I read the forum every once in a while and have posted a few times. However, it's to hectic for me. I have problems keeping up which threads I posted in and such, so I'll just stick around here and in Christianforums, I like the madness there better. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 14:18:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
What I notice more and more, especially in these kind of forums, is that creationists often have a very hard time discerning what an argument actually is. I often get the feeling that they don't really not want to back up their statement, they just don't understand the difference between making a random assertion and backing up your statement. They don't really want to make ad-homs, they just don't understand the difference between criticizing an argument, criticizing a person and making ad-homs.
I read the forum every once in a while and have posted a few times. However, it's to hectic for me. I have problems keeping up which threads I posted in and such, so I'll just stick around here and in Christianforums, I like the madness there better.
Well like at Live Wire I post ad homs all the time for fun, but if a forum prohibits it I try to avoid it. Apparently the post is new so Fred hasn't seen it, so we'll see what happens. I just thought it was interesting that this guy is saying we're fools, but doing it with the Bible.
I have this feeling that will be acceptable because it is IN the Bible.
tk |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 14:31:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tkster
I just thought it was interesting that this guy is saying we're fools, but doing it with the Bible.I have this feeling that will be acceptable because it is IN the Bible.
Is it that "A fool says in his heart their is no god" line? The best response to that I've read was, "Yes, and a wise man shouts it from the rooftops."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/05/2005 14:31:21 |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 14:33:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by tkster
I just thought it was interesting that this guy is saying we're fools, but doing it with the Bible.I have this feeling that will be acceptable because it is IN the Bible.
Is it that "A fool says in his heart their is no god" line? The best response to that I've read was, "Yes, and a wise man shouts it from the rooftops."
Yes, that's the verse. I've noticed that Hovind has currently used it a lot more to attack evolutionists and then claim "oh it's not ad hom, because it's in the Bible." Since killing is in the Bible, is that okay to do to?
tk |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 15:14:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
tkster:
A double standard at the forum. Oh well, figured it was going to happen sooner or later. A Christian can call atheists/agnostics fools, but an atheist/agnostic did it, we'd get banned.
I like, though, how this Christian hides behind the Bible to call us fools to try to get away with it. Ironically, the forum STILL says no ad hominem attacks.
Not to kick a dead horse (or forum, as the case may be) but I seem to recall a similar treatment of “evolutionists, agnostics and atheists” at Skeptic Times. Welcome to our world…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 15:50:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
What I notice more and more, especially in these kind of forums, is that creationists often have a very hard time discerning what an argument actually is.
Because they don't understand even basic logic. Take verlch, for example. It;s a rare post of his in which you can actually determine subject and predicate in his statements.... and he's never even come close to presenting an argument.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 20:01:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Because they don't understand even basic logic. Take verlch, for example. It;s a rare post of his in which you can actually determine subject and predicate in his statements.... and he's never even come close to presenting an argument.
Indeed, which makes the discussions very simple, actually. It usually takes about two posts to work out whether a specific poster will be worth the effort to really try to be convincing or just spin of the usual counterarguments. 10 or 15 posts later, from what I've seen, the logically apt creationists start doubting their own arguments and you can start to educate them. The other creationists are just usefull to give some direction into my own studies of biology. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 20:09:11 [Permalink]
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I wonder if starting a topic on basic logic would help ....
No, doubt it.
tk |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 20:50:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by tkster
I just thought it was interesting that this guy is saying we're fools, but doing it with the Bible.I have this feeling that will be acceptable because it is IN the Bible.
Is it that "A fool says in his heart their is no god" line? The best response to that I've read was, "Yes, and a wise man shouts it from the rooftops."
hah! I remember running into that shit in the Rapture Ready forums. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 22:50:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
I wonder if starting a topic on basic logic would help ....
Unlikely. Logic is not easy to grasp when presented in a formal way. It requires one to learn new terminology and sometimes counterintuitive concepts. Not to mention that it is a terribly dry subject to study.
Even a very simple instruction in critical thinking using basic logic is hard to get people to learn.
This ties into a trait shared by many creationists, their lack of basic grammar skills. Learning how to state propositions with correct relation between subject and predicate IS a basic lesson in logic.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2005 : 09:45:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
tkster:
A double standard at the forum. Oh well, figured it was going to happen sooner or later. A Christian can call atheists/agnostics fools, but an atheist/agnostic did it, we'd get banned.
I like, though, how this Christian hides behind the Bible to call us fools to try to get away with it. Ironically, the forum STILL says no ad hominem attacks.
Not to kick a dead horse (or forum, as the case may be) but I seem to recall a similar treatment of “evolutionists, agnostics and atheists” at Skeptic Times. Welcome to our world…
The only thing I regret about my forum is banning Ricky, Dr. Mabuse, Peptide and you. Of course, I re-instated all of you (except Ricky, but I did offer to him). I do not, however, regret banning the people from IG. The forum the whole time did say it was "For Christians and Creationists" so since many Christians submitted posts that were offensive, I banned the people who did it. Christians got the edge and the forum was clear when it established the bias "For Christians and Creationists."
However, to my knowledge, the people from SFN never did anything wrong (there might have been one or two off color posts). People didn't seem to understand that the forum was ONLY supposed to be for Christians as it said that. Much like the forum The Narrow Way forum is (I was a member here while I was a Creationist until I became an agnostic and allowed the admin to ban me because I realized I no longer should be a member there).
tk |
| Edited by - tkster on 02/06/2005 09:46:21 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 07:14:47 [Permalink]
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| Thats a reasonable response, however by lampooning skepticism you were asking for non-christians. Anyway its a moot point now. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 05:32:51 [Permalink]
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Okay, so I have been a regular poster for some time now on Fred's forum. But now I've been suspended. The reason (bolded for your the lazy amongst you)?
quote:
from suspending notification
Tomk80,
Your member account at Evolution Fairytale Discussion Board has been temporarily
suspended.
Your account will not be functional until Apr 15 2006, 12:00 AM (depending on
your timezone). This is an automated process and you do not need to do anything
to expediate the unsuspension process.
Board Address: http://evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php
You have been traced to a troll forum. Skeptic friends network.
I have e-mail Fred Phelps why I am banned on the basis of being member of a forum that they don't agree with, in stead of on the basis of my posting record, which I think adhers to all their forum rules and can in no way be labeled as trolling. I'm now awaiting there response. Odd behavior. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 02/22/2005 05:34:17 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 06:50:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
Okay, so I have been a regular poster for some time now on Fred's forum. But now I've been suspended. The reason (bolded for your the lazy amongst you)?
quote:
from suspending notification
Tomk80,
Your member account at Evolution Fairytale Discussion Board has been temporarily
suspended.
Your account will not be functional until Apr 15 2006, 12:00 AM (depending on
your timezone). This is an automated process and you do not need to do anything
to expediate the unsuspension process.
Board Address: http://evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php
You have been traced to a troll forum. Skeptic friends network.
I have e-mail Fred Phelps why I am banned on the basis of being member of a forum that they don't agree with, in stead of on the basis of my posting record, which I think adhers to all their forum rules and can in no way be labeled as trolling. I'm now awaiting there response. Odd behavior.
A "troll forum"!?! SFN? I'm offended!! Sort of.  |
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tkster
Skeptic Friend
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 08:17:53 [Permalink]
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That's really sad Tom, but I've been banned as well. This is why I was banned, this was a post I made:
quote:
Not all evolutionists think that Dinosaurs and man didn't live together. For an example, McGinley and myself think that there is some evidence that suggests there is a possibility of both co-existing together. The point being that dinosaurs living with man does NOT falsify evolution, but would prove that some of what some scientists have said wrong.
In other words, if you proved dinosaurs living with man occurred, that would not prove evolution to be false
I was replying to this topic:
quote:
This is indirectly related to evolution, but I think its interesting in any case.
What does anyone know about the Indian rock art that has dinosaurs in them?
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Dinoglyphs/dinoglyphs.html
I couldn't find anythingn on talkorigns....
If the indians had seen dinosaurs alive, then what does that mean for evolution?
These things seem to be authentic.
Terry
Anyway, my post was removed within 30 minutes of when I posted it. I came back about that time and found my post gone and when I tried to log in it said that I had been banned.
Anyway, I knew I'd be banned sometime, but didn't know it would be over that post.
tk |
| Edited by - tkster on 02/22/2005 08:36:42 |
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