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 URI GELLER ................... A FRAUD?
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latinijral
Banned

197 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  15:38:29  Show Profile Send latinijral a Private Message
Dear Skeptic Friends:

Please be careful while you are responding these questions.

I know some of you have potential.

Do you consider Geller's atributed paranormal acts a fraud?

Why?

Remember....think before you respond.

Father of the new skepticism

Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"!

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  15:45:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Troll sighting.

Hijacking your thread now.

NEW QUESTION!

Do you consider latinijral to be a fraud?

If so, why?


Let me start! Yes. Total fraud.

He has repeatedly made accuasations without any evidence to support them. He calls himself the "father of the 'new skepticism' " and refuses to answer when asked what qualifies him to have such a title. He is obsessed with Randi because the JREF refused to award the prize to his delusional friend who submitted a video of the WTC attack (with some blurry spot) as evidence of the paranormal. He has trolled this board repeatedly in multiple threads in his obsessive quest to slander the JREF and people associated with it.

I could go on...



Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  16:21:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
Choices, choices! For now, I'll pick latinijral (no offense, Dude-- lat is most certainly a troll).

I looked at the Geller website. In particular, I was looking for information on his spoon-bending/telekenesis stuff. This page talks about it to some extent. At one point, a link gives us the formula for telekenesis: TK=Cfe+VC+ZPE+SD-E+, whatever the hell that means. It has something to do with iron, though.

His site doesn't have and video clips of his spoon-bending (that I can find), and some of the "sceintific" studies done on his work are, to say the least, full of shit lacking in rigor.

Seeing as how evidence of spoon-bending and other telekenetic power have been utterly lacking thus far, I tend towards the skeptical side on that debate. Nothing I've read or seen of Geller thus far leads me to think otherwise. Put me in the "attributed to fraud" group.

(ETA: "Oh shit-- I forgot to think before I posted!!!")
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 02/26/2005 16:22:02
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  16:47:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
I have done some research on the web on him and I have to conclude:

Geller is nothing but a magician posing as a psychic.

He has subjected to one scientific test, that has been called into question, and has refused to do more. He sues anyone who calls him a fraud, and has lost many of these suits. Most of his psychic 'powers' are very simular or exactly the same as magician tricks. I am amazed that he is still calling himself a psychic, when many people have found out his trickery.

And here is him getting caught in the act.
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/urispoon.htm

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  18:15:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Troll sighting.

Hijacking your thread now.

NEW QUESTION!

Do you consider latinijral to be a fraud?



I would say trying to completely change the subject of the thread in the very first response is rather trollish.

I really think we should give the same respect to everyone, even if I personally think they don't deserve it.

latinijral, I think he is a fraud because I have seen a video of him on the Skeptic Report which clearly shows how he uses his hands.

Ask yourself this: If a man can bend a spoon with his mind, why does he need his hand?

One would think somehow by using his hands he is..... using his hands.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 02/26/2005 18:17:20
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  18:30:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
A highly skilled fraud.

I've seen on TV that his spoons bend nicely, but I'll bet a month's disability check against a Chick Tract that he can't bend one of mine, other than mechanically, selected at random from the drawer. O'course, with me standing right there, he won't get the vibes, currents, voices, whathell-ever. His failure will be all my fault. Saw him pull that one on the toob as well.

He has made too many preposterous claims, such as the one about how it was he that stopped the Olympic Globe's decent at the Austrailian Olympics, a claim he knows full well is not falsifiable. A sure sign of a charlaton. Another sure sign is that so many easily bewildered people believe in him.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 02/27/2005 02:55:24
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  19:56:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Dear Skeptic Friends:
Please be careful while you are responding these questions.
I know some of you have potential.
Do you consider Geller's atributed paranormal acts a fraud?
Why?
Remember....think before you respond.

Geller is a fraud because... wait let me think first... Ok, because he says he can bend spoons with his mind and he cannot.

He is also a fraud because... Hmmmmm... he says he can repair a watch with his mind and he can't.

Latinijral is not so much a fraud he is more of a stalker of sorts. He has helped me to understand the stalker mentality.

PS. Thanks for letting me know about Randi's site, Latinijral. I now read his commentary every Friday - GREAT STUFF!


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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belt
New Member

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  21:48:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send belt a Private Message
Latinijral, I'm quite upset that i'm going to have to go to bed tonight "thinking" about Uri, without hearing what you have to say in his defense. really...no, seriously...
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  23:29:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
I really think we should give the same respect to everyone, even if I personally think they don't deserve it.



Ricky, you have it wrong man.

We should, on first meeting, extend courtesy to anyone and everyone, without question.

After that, respect has to be earned by all parties (ourselves included).

Call me an asshole, but this guy hasn't earned a shred of respect. He prettymuch deserves nothing in that regard.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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latinijral
Banned

197 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  20:25:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send latinijral a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

A highly skilled fraud.





If fraud is considered a criminal activity.......why Geller is laughing at you all?


Father of the new skepticism

Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  21:31:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
I really think we should give the same respect to everyone, even if I personally think they don't deserve it.



Ricky, you have it wrong man.

We should, on first meeting, extend courtesy to anyone and everyone, without question.

After that, respect has to be earned by all parties (ourselves included).

Call me an asshole, but this guy hasn't earned a shred of respect. He prettymuch deserves nothing in that regard.



Throughout my life, I have learned to give respect to everyone, at least verbally. If you think this is wrong, by all means, disagree, but that is far from me "having it wrong." It is simply a difference in attitudes towards others, neither one of us is wrong.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  22:19:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

A highly skilled fraud.





If fraud is considered a criminal activity.......why Geller is laughing at you all?





Because he is still making lots of money off of gulible people.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  22:20:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
If fraud is considered a criminal activity.......why Geller is laughing at you all?


*Sigh* You get a pass for this latest piece-of-shit thread because English isn't your native language. Here's the lesson. Learn it, and then go play in traffic. Fraud has several definitions. The one you're (presumably) operating under is the first one:
quote:
A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
In other words, criminal activity punishable by a fine or prison time. However, there is another definition:
quote:
A piece of trickery; a trick.
This implies no legal wrongdoing, and is applied when referring to people like fortune-tellers, palm-readers, and other hucksters you'd encounter at a local county fair or a psychic you might see on TV.

I'm not a legal expert, so I cannot comment on why the tarot-reader up the street isn't arrested while some bank executive is, but I'm sure the actual issues are quite clear.

In any event, Geller-- indeed, spoon-bending via telekenesis in general-- is considered in everyday American English to be the second category. That is, Geller is performing a trick. Some might beleive him and some might. Some might even pay money to see him, just like they'd pay money to see a film or play. But it is not, in a strict sense, legal fraud.

So, why is Geller laughing? Well, who knows. Is he even laughing as you say? Obviously you've never actually met Geller, and I doubt he goes on record saying that he's laughing at everyone. So I'd wager (an American English idiom meaning "I beleive that..." or "I think that..." or, more loosely, "it's probably that..."; not usually a literal terming meaning "I'd actually like to bet money") that Geller is not only not laughing, but that he couldn't care less what a bunch of people at SFN think of him.

Now, what was your point again?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  22:21:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

A highly skilled fraud.





If fraud is considered a criminal activity.......why[is] Geller is laughing at you all?



So, is the "father of the new skepticism" the friend of anyone who hates Randi?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2005 :  01:06:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Throughout my life, I have learned to give respect to everyone, at least verbally. If you think this is wrong, by all means, disagree, but that is far from me "having it wrong." It is simply a difference in attitudes towards others, neither one of us is wrong.


I refuse to be dishonest to people. Paying lipservice with verbal respect that you don't really have for somebody is, imo, a dishonest thing.

I much prefer people to be straight up with me as well.

Beyond the generalized respect and courtesy on first meeting, each party has to earn the respect of the other.

This doesn't mean that we have to be rude to people we don't respect, just that pretending to be courteous and respectfull is (in keeping with the subject of this thread) a kind of fraud.




Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2005 :  01:59:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
[/hijack]

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 02/28/2005 01:59:43
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