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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2005 : 16:24:05 [Permalink]
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There is no review that even intimates that the book “Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults, A Scientific Study” promotes pedophilia.
Example review:
quote:
Editorial Reviews
From Book News, Inc.
Assesses the social constructs of sexuality and examines the various motivations behind sexual encounters between adults and children, presenting the findings of two important research projects on pedophilia: that of C.K. Li, who conducted voluntary interviews with men who admitted to a sexual interest in young girls or boys; and that of D.J. West and T.P. Woodhouse (co-authors, with Li, of this volume), who questioned groups of adult males, both students and others, about their recollections of sexual encounters when they were boys (and compared the findings with those of a similar survey of women). Annotation copyright Book News, Inc. Portland, Or.
quote:
…Dr Underwager posted further thoughts in which he emphasised his belief that the "criminalization of sex" was destroying the social compact.
Prometheus also publishes the books of James Randi, an ex-CSICOP Member and present FMSF Advisory Board member Other FMSF Board Members, Martin Gardner, Ray Hyman, Elizabeth Loftus, Loren Pancratz, Thomas Sebeok are also CSICOP board members.[ Accuracy About Abuse Newsletter April 1996]
Underwager was problematic for the FMSF. He is also dead. Ray Hyman is no longer an FMSF board member.
But all of this guilt by association stuff about CSICOP is crap. I suppose since Michael Jackson once recorded for Motown records, and whatever his present record company is, I should not buy anything from either label according to latinajral's logic…
More inuindo…
And yes, I will lock any new topic until you respond to the “new skepticism” question.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 18:40:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I don't care if the SFN administrators close my threads again, because of their fear to the evidence of the mistakes , lies, contradictions , double speech , unprofessional behaviour, unethical behaviour, etc., of the self named Skeptic Organizations …..aka….”old skepticism”.
What is the New skepticism?
How does it differ from the Old Skepticism?
What qualifies you to be the father of the new skepticism?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 18:44:51 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by filthy
In fact, what does any of the above have to do with anything?/quote]filthy, just ignore him. Part of latinijral's problem is that he thinks he comes with new and interesting material to challenge skeptics, but it's mostly old and stale, and has already been discussed. The fact that all his "reporting" comes from the Web means he's just tossing around the same old stuff.
Seriously old. Underwager resigned from the FMSF 12 years ago (not that the FMSF is a "skeptical" organization, anyway, and I personally don't think Randi wise to endorse it so heartily), about the same time Randi was being accused of pedophilia (based on tapes over 35 years old, now, as far as I could tell). Whether or not Bullough was a wise choice for a Prometheus Books section on human sexuality I can't say (and he started in that position in 1988), but I can't find anyone pointing a finger of shame at any book he's edited.
This is MoeFaux and Chris Bidlack, rehashed with different people. latinijral is attempting to build a straw man which says that skeptics claim to be above reproach, so that he can show their ordinary humanity to knock skepticism down. But I haven't yet met anyone who claimed that skepticism is an ethical and/or moral base, so he's just blowing wind. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 18:56:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by KIL
There is no review that even intimates that the book “Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults, A Scientific Study” promotes pedophilia (snip the blab blab)
And I don't see any statement, in the quote, that indicates that the book “Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults” promotes pedophilia.
Your efforts to missquote is just another example of your pseudo skeptic “skills” to hide the evidence of their actions.
Here is the quote (again) :
http://www.heart7.net/fms-false-construct.html
quote:
Appendix E PROMETHEUS BOOKS
Prometheus Books, publishers of Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults, is run by Paul Kurtz, Professor emeritus of Philosophy, State University of New York at Buffalo. He is chairman of CSICOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) which runs the Skeptical Inquirer. Prometheus publishes an extensive Human Sexuality Books section under the editorship of Vern Bullough (AAA10/March 1996), Dean of Natural and Social Science at State University, New York, who is a CSICOP Board member.
Vern Bullough is also listed as a board member of Paidika, the Dutch paedophile magazine in which Dr Ralph Underwager, co-founder of the FMSF in the US said he thought having sex with children could be seen as part of God's will; that paedophiles should make their loving image clearer to the outside world; and that the USA was virulently anti-sexuality at present. His wife, Hollida Wakefield, who also took part in the interview said she thought it would be "nice" if someone could do a longitudinal study of 100 twelve year old boys in loving relationships with paedophiles. More recently on the Internet, Dr Underwager posted further thoughts in which he emphasised his belief that the "criminalization of sex" was destroying the social compact.
Prometheus also publishes the books of James Randi, an ex-CSICOP Member and present FMSF Advisory Board member . Other FMSF Board Members, Martin Gardner, Ray Hyman, Elizabeth Loftus, Loren Pancratz, Thomas Sebeok are also CSICOP board members.[ Accuracy About Abuse Newsletter April 1996] ,
Your misquoting is just another example of the old TACTICS of the old skepticism ……. already debunked.
quote:
Originally posted by KIL
Underwager was problematic for the FMSF. He is also dead.
And you skip to tell us why Underwager was “problematic” to the FMSF.
I will not. Here it is ( from the same link):
quote:
Underwager himself resigned from the FMSF in 1994 after being quoted in a Dutch journal as saying that "Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose... With boldness they can say "I believe this is in fact part of gods will"... Paedophiles need to become more positive and make the claim that paedophilia is an acceptable expression of gods will for love and unity among human beings."" In fact, both Underwager and Wakefield have described pedophilia as a "positive lifestyle choice" (Bull & Marten, 1994; Ryan 1993b). ,
But you can not hide his statements about his “beliefs”.
And you can not hide that FMSF members are also CSICOP board |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 19:11:21 [Permalink]
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Yeah, I see it, Dave. But he caught me off guard by actually making a reasonable post. Which was quickly turned into more nonsense. Ah well.
In my years of posting to this forum as well as the old one, I've seen some charecters, but none like latinijral. He is unique.
I think we oughta make a tsantsa out of him and display him in the logo. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 19:18:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your misquoting is just another example of the old TACTICS of the old skepticism ……. already debunked.
You are mistaken. It is "new" skepticism and it's tactics which are already debunked, by your own standards.
Get over yourself and either answer the question asked of you or go somewhere else and build your straw-men.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 19:30:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinidiot:
<The usual psychotic bullshit>
Latindouchebag, you are a fucking moron. Shut the fuck up already, crawl back under your rock, take your idiotic rantings and stick them where the sun don't shine.
Dave, Kil, I don't envy you the task of administrating with this jizbag latinwasrepeatedlydroppedonhishead trolling around here. I imagine its a lot like changing diapers, only not as pleasant.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 20:30:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by KIL
There is no review that even intimates that the book “Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults, A Scientific Study” promotes pedophilia (snip the blab blab)
And I don't see any statement, in the quote, that indicates that the book “Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults” promotes pedophilia.
Your efforts to missquote is just another example of your pseudo skeptic “skills” to hide the evidence of their actions.
Here is the quote (again) :
http://www.heart7.net/fms-false-construct.html
quote:
Appendix E PROMETHEUS BOOKS
Prometheus Books, publishers of Children's Sexual Encounters with Adults, is run by Paul Kurtz, Professor emeritus of Philosophy, State University of New York at Buffalo. He is chairman of CSICOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) which runs the Skeptical Inquirer. Prometheus publishes an extensive Human Sexuality Books section under the editorship of Vern Bullough (AAA10/March 1996), Dean of Natural and Social Science at State University, New York, who is a CSICOP Board member.
Vern Bullough is also listed as a board member of Paidika, the Dutch paedophile magazine in which Dr Ralph Underwager, co-founder of the FMSF in the US said he thought having sex with children could be seen as part of God's will; that paedophiles should make their loving image clearer to the outside world; and that the USA was virulently anti-sexuality at present. His wife, Hollida Wakefield, who also took part in the interview said she thought it would be "nice" if someone could do a longitudinal study of 100 twelve year old boys in loving relationships with paedophiles. More recently on the Internet, Dr Underwager posted further thoughts in which he emphasised his belief that the "criminalization of sex" was destroying the social compact.
Prometheus also publishes the books of James Randi, an ex-CSICOP Member and present FMSF Advisory Board member . Other FMSF Board Members, Martin Gardner, Ray Hyman, Elizabeth Loftus, Loren Pancratz, Thomas Sebeok are also CSICOP board members.[ Accuracy About Abuse Newsletter April 1996] ,
Your misquoting is just another example of the old TACTICS of the old skepticism ……. already debunked.
quote:
Originally posted by KIL
Underwager was problematic for the FMSF. He is also dead.
And you skip to tell us why Underwager was “problematic” to the FMSF.
I will not. Here it is ( from the same link):
quote:
Underwager himself resigned from the FMSF in 1994 after being quoted in a Dutch journal as saying that "Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose... With boldness they can say "I believe this is in fact part of gods will"... Paedophiles need to become more positive and make the claim that paedophilia is an acceptable expression of gods will for love and unity among human beings."" In fact, both Underwager and Wakefield have described pedophilia as a "positive lifestyle choice" (Bull & Marten, 1994; Ryan 1993b). ,
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 20:44:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
If you are trying to hide the evidence comparing music with pedophilia , is just because you need to “justify” the SFN promotion to the links of CSICOP and the James Randi Foundation
We "justify" those links by acknowledging that the CSICOP and the JREF web sites have information of interest to skeptics. Other reasons for justification are your own fabrication.quote:
I prefer to call it : a “bizarre paedophile coincidence” .
How rare is pedophilia?quote:
And another taboo topic to the pseudo skeptics organizations.
Taboo? Your posts on the subject have not been deleted. You must be using a different definition of "taboo" than everyone else.quote:
Even hard to find it in GOOGLE.
Perhaps because those "scandals" and their resolutions predate the wide popularity of the Internet.quote:
Your putative rule...
You're also using a different definition of putative than everyone else, since the rule assuredly exists, and has been enforced on several occassions.quote:
...is because of your fear to the evidence of the mistakes , lies, contradictions , double speech , unprofessional behaviour, unethical behaviour, etc., of the self named Skeptic Organizations …..aka….”old skepticism”.
You have yet to provide any evidence of any of these behaviours on the part of any organization. At best, you've put forth evidence of these behaviours on the part of individuals within an organization. And none of the claims you've put forth, true or not, has demonstrated a fault with philosophical skepticism, only with some of the people who attempt to pratice that viewpoint.
Well, at least we've gotten a half-answer to one of the corollaries to one of Dude's old questions: the things listed above are the "old skepticism." Unfortunately, latinijral himself practices the old skepticism (he lies, is self-contradictory, uses double-speak, makes mistakes, is unethical and unprofessional, etc.), so now I'm absolutely sure that he cannot be "the father of the new skepticism." It's just another of his lies, folks.
[Edited to insert "some of" in a place it was needed - Dave W.] |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 22:00:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
Part of latinijral's problem is that he thinks he comes with new and interesting material to challenge skeptics, but it's mostly old and stale, and has already been discussed.
Part of pseudo sceptics forums are their fear when evidence , concerning other pseudo sceptics Organizations, is presented.
Discussed here at SFN? No evidence at all.
All I see until now is your SFN efforts to hide the paedophile facts.
Even your “dudes” confessed they were not aware of those facts.
And those Skeptic Organizations , whose founders are involved , prefer to hide/no comment the topic on their boards.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
The fact that all his "reporting" comes from the Web means he's just tossing around the same old stuff.
Was Filthy who wrote this ?: “I just ran a google on it and could find nothing where Randi himself was accused of paedophilia.”
I just helped him. Something wrong on that ?
Suddenly your paranoia started again.
Is this forum on the WEB or in the back yard of your house?
quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
Seriously old. Underwager resigned from the FMSF 12 years ago (not that the FMSF is a "skeptical" organization, anyway, and I personally don't think Randi wise to endorse it so heartily), about the same time Randi was being accused of pedophilia (based on tapes over 35 years old, now, as far as I could tell).
Paedophilia is paedophilia , no matter how many years it has.
It should be not hiding/taboo just because some skeptics are involved.
You are a SFN administrator , then you should now what other founders of other skeptic organization are involved on.
What is your fear? Is your of KIL ‘s real name mentioned on the list?
Lurkers of this forum have the right to know about the paedophile connection, they will make their own decisions.
Quote :“FMSF Members are largely individuals who seek to defend themselves from accusations of sexual abuse of children.”
Quote : “James Randi, an ex-CSICOP Member and present FMSF Advisory Board member . Other FMSF Board Members, Martin Gardner, Ray Hyman, Elizabeth Loftus, Loren Pancratz, Thomas Sebeok are also CSICOP board members.[ Accuracy About Abuse Newsletter April 1996]”
quote:
Originally posted by Dave.
Whether or not Bullough was a wise choice for a Prometheus Books section on human sexuality I can't say (and he started in that position in 1988), but I can't find anyone pointing a finger of shame at any book he's edited.
Quote : “Vern Bullough is also listed as a board member of Paidika, the Dutch paedophile magazine”
The quotes are from this article:
http://www.heart7.net/fms-false-construct.html
URI---> Michael Jackson----->paedophile ----->.the bizarre “old sKepticism” connection , is now your new concern.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 22:32:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
latinajral:
Quote :“FMSF Members are largely individuals who seek to defend themselves from accusations of sexual abuse of children.”
Quote : “James Randi, an ex-CSICOP Member and present FMSF Advisory Board member . Other FMSF Board Members, Martin Gardner, Ray Hyman, Elizabeth Loftus, Loren Pancratz, Thomas Sebeok are also CSICOP board members.[ Accuracy About Abuse Newsletter April 1996]”
FMSF Members are largely individuals who seek to defend themselves from the accusations of sexual abuse of children. True.
However, the board members are not the membership. The people you have listed in the above quote are on the advisory board. (Ray Hyman has left the board.) That is not the same as being a member. And, while I do not agree with them on the syndrome part, yes, some skeptics actively support the idea of false memory with an associated syndrome, hence, it is not surprising that they would support the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as advisors. That does not mean they support pedophilia. It means they believe that there is sufficient evidence in support of a psychological condition called False Memory Syndrome. Duh!
You have no idea what the FMSF is. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2005 : 22:54:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Lurkers of this forum have the right to know about the paedophile connection, they will make their own decisions.
And now they know. Why are you afraid when more facts (like Underwager's resignation and death, for two examples) are introduced?quote:
URI---> Michael Jackson----->paedophile ----->.the bizarre “old sKepticism” connection , is now your new concern.
No, it's not. When I first heard about these things (before your arrival here), I looked into them and decided there were much more relevant issues which required my attention. Why do you think this putative "connection" should concern me now? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 03:38:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Even your “dudes” confessed they were not aware of those facts.
Some of us just refuse to allow you to substitute wild accusations and innuendo for facts. You have demonstrated repeatedly that you don't actually know what a fact is, so get back to us when you actually manage to find some facts that aren't your own (to borrow a phrase from you) "biased opinion" phrased in an attempt to slander other people.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 05:08:58 [Permalink]
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This has gone from the ridiculous to the asinine, to the downright silly.
quote:
Was Filthy who wrote this ?: “I just ran a google on it and could find nothing where Randi himself was accused of paedophilia.”
I just helped him. Something wrong on that ?
Suddenly your paranoia started again.
Is this forum on the WEB or in the back yard of your house?
And when were the convictions? How much prison time was served? Does not the law read,"Innocent until proven guilty?" When is up? Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear? What-ho, the new skepticism? Why am I getting a headache?
It is said that a bore in someone who deprives you of solitude without giving you company. This is getting to be very long, repititious, and thus, dull. Sort of like listening to Rush Limbaugh or reading Ann Coulter. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/21/2005 05:10:33 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2005 : 07:46:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Sort of like listening to Rush Limbaugh or reading Ann Coulter.
I imagine it's like listening to Rush Limbaugh as he reads Ann Coulter. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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