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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  04:54:02  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Dr. Jason Lisle, a Creationist Astrophysicist of AIG-USA shares his wisdom with us:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .
The wisdom continues:
quote:
The past cannot be repeated or studied in a laboratory. So, we should not be surprised that ideas about the past change from time to time—such as the supposed age of a fossil. This is particularly so when ideas about the past are based on the incorrect worldview of evolution and millions of years. Of course, the only way to know about the past with certainty is to consult a history book. The Bible is such a history book and gives us the true account of origins. It never changes because God got it right the first time.


So evidence must first be included in a history book to be of use?

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  05:31:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

Dr. Jason Lisle, a Creationist Astrophysicist of AIG-USA shares his wisdom with us:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .
The wisdom continues:
quote:
The past cannot be repeated or studied in a laboratory. So, we should not be surprised that ideas about the past change from time to time—such as the supposed age of a fossil. This is particularly so when ideas about the past are based on the incorrect worldview of evolution and millions of years. Of course, the only way to know about the past with certainty is to consult a history book. The Bible is such a history book and gives us the true account of origins. It never changes because God got it right the first time.


So evidence must first be included in a history book to be of use?

Hmm, yes... And what pray, is 'Origin Science?' I've never heard of such.

I also wonder why there seems to be more than a few PhD astrophysicists, astronomers, and so forth amongst the creationists. Dr. Lisle is pretty much typical of those.
quote:
Most practicing astronomers and astrophysicists believe in the big bang, a billions-of-years-old universe and other evolutionary ideas. But based on Scripture and the best interpretation of the scientific evidence, they are simply wrong, according to Dr. Jason Lisle, AiG-USA's newest speaker and researcher.

An astrophysicist with a Ph.D. from the University of Colorado at Boulder, Dr. Lisle is now helping AiG (and the creation movement as a whole) refute the evolutionary account of origins—using his strong science background. He will also help design exciting planetarium programs for the future Creation Museum in Northern Kentucky (near Cincinnati, Ohio).

Dr. Lisle is not the stereotypical “egg-head” research scientist who has difficulty communicating at a layman's level. In addition to his talks on astronomy, he has developed an excellent, well-illustrated talk on the topic of “The Relevance of Genesis.” This Bible-upholding talk is even suitable for Sunday morning services.

As with all of the creationists, he is also parroting the nonsense that the theory of Evolution has something to say about 'origins.' From this article:
quote:
Preliminary comments on the PBS-TV series “Origins”
by Dr. Jason Lisle, AiG–USA astrophysicist

29 September 2004

On Tuesday evening, the US television network PBS (Public Broadcasting System) aired the first two hours of a four-hour miniseries on “Origins.” In the series prologue, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson1 asks a series of questions about history. “How did the universe, our planet, how did we ourselves come to be? How did the first sparks of life take hold here? Are we alone in the cosmos? Where did all the stars and galaxies come from?”

In the first hour, viewers are shown the

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  05:57:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
The story of Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten's fake fossil dates can be found in this Guardian article.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  06:26:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
How can somebody call themself an Astrophysicist when they make a statement like this:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Actually how can somebody who has had more than one highschool science course make a statement like that.

God, that's emabarassing!



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  06:35:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message

Ok, I just looked at his bio and he got a Ph.D. from the University of Colorado at Boulder. WTF?!? My condolences U of C.

This guy knows that carbon dating cannot give dates that are millions of years old, so he is flat out lying (for God, I guess).

I guess I an just naive, but stuff like this always surprises me. I expect religious people to be honest. Shit, I am naive!!!


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  06:44:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

How can somebody call themself an Astrophysicist when they make a statement like this:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Actually how can somebody who has had more than one highschool science course make a statement like that.

God, that's emabarassing!

Heh, consider the organization he's writing for. AiG doesn't mind a little embarrassment. Their skins are as thick as their skulls and they know no shame when caught in an outright lie. And their apologetics are such that they can easily lie their faithful back in line if some should harbor doubts.

The embarrassing part is ours in that they have so many faithful. Unlike AiG, we have been lax. We have not been getting the facts out as well as we might. But then, what working scientist has time for it?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  07:01:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

quote:
Originally posted by furshur

How can somebody call themself an Astrophysicist when they make a statement like this:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Actually how can somebody who has had more than one highschool science course make a statement like that.

God, that's emabarassing!

Heh, consider the organization he's writing for. AiG doesn't mind a little embarrassment. Their skins are as thick as their skulls and they know no shame when caught in an outright lie. And their apologetics are such that they can easily lie their faithful back in line if some should harbor doubts.

The embarrassing part is ours in that they have so many faithful. Unlike AiG, we have been lax. We have not been getting the facts out as well as we might. But then, what working scientist has time for it?





Not many. We need another Carl Sagen to help bring science to the masses.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  07:45:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

Dr. Jason Lisle, a Creationist Astrophysicist of AIG-USA shares his wisdom with us:
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  08:01:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Dr. Mabuse I like the little laughing dude!



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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TG
Skeptic Friend

USA
121 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  08:07:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send TG a Private Message
quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Technically, that's an accurate statement, so it's not really a lie (for those with a fundamentalist mentality). Misleading yes, but true nonetheless.

It never fails to amaze me how otherwise intelligent people can selectively disable their critical thinking ability when religious beliefs are involved.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  08:30:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

Dr. Mabuse I like the little laughing dude!

Yeah, I've collected a bunch of them, but since they are subject to copyright (by unknown copyright holders) we can't include them into our forum. Indeed, just by posting them I'm violating copyright.

However, using them on a forum like this should be ok, at least I think it should. It's not like they are used for commercial purposes, and noone is claiming ownership of them. I just don't recall where I found them all. Some comes from php-forums.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  09:11:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Yardsticks are very supportive of a tiny universe and never give size estimates in miles or lightyears.

Wow, this "science" stuff is easy!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  09:37:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Yardsticks are very supportive of a tiny universe and never give size estimates in miles or lightyears.

Wow, this "science" stuff is easy!



(little laughing dude in corner)



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  13:56:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by TG

quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Technically, that's an accurate statement, so it's not really a lie (for those with a fundamentalist mentality). Misleading yes, but true nonetheless.

It never fails to amaze me how otherwise intelligent people can selectively disable their critical thinking ability when religious beliefs are involved.

That statement is not even remotely correct, only the last 'clause' in it is. Carbon dating uses recovered remains of living organisms. Obviously unless you expect to have 4 billion year old organic remains radio carbon dating can only be used to date things x#, (50,000? can't remember, don't want to look it up), of years old. How does that support YEC? And of course we all know there are other radiometric dating systems that are used to date non-organic Earth structures.

(Second bold type edited from 'radio carbon dating' to correct term.)
Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/02/2005 21:57:31
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  14:06:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by TG

quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Technically, that's an accurate statement, so it's not really a lie (for those with a fundamentalist mentality). Misleading yes, but true nonetheless.

It never fails to amaze me how otherwise intelligent people can selectively disable their critical thinking ability when religious beliefs are involved.

That statement is not even remotely correct, only the last 'clause' in it is. Carbon dating uses recovered remains of living organisms. Obviously unless you expect to have 4 billion year old organic remains radio carbon dating can only be used to date things x#, (50,000? can't remember, don't want to look it up), of years old. How does that support YEC? And of course we all know there are other radio carbons that are used to date non-organic Earth structures.



If we were to use only Carbon dating, you would only get dates up to about 50,000 years ago. The reason for this is because the half-life of Carbon-14 is just under 6,000 years. After so many half-lives, there simply isn't enough left to detect. This is actually evidence for an older earth because if you find remains of creatures with no C-14 in them, then you know they have to be older then 50,000 years.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 03/02/2005 14:10:15
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2005 :  14:16:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by TG

quote:
Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth and never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years .

Technically, that's an accurate statement, so it's not really a lie (for those with a fundamentalist mentality). Misleading yes, but true nonetheless.

"Carbon dating is very supportive of a young earth" -- this is an untrue statement.

Only the second part of the compound-statement is true: "Carbon dating never gives age estimates of millions or billions of years"

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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