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Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  03:58:56  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
You ladies should all read this.
In sharp contrast to popular opinion men enjoy being married to braindead ameuba.

quote:

ompassionate and practical, The Surrendered Wife is a step-by-step guide that teaches women how to:

* Give up unnecessary control and responsibility
* Resist the temptation to criticize, belittle, or dismiss their husbands
* Trust their husbands in every aspect of marriage -- from sexual to financial
And more.

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  05:06:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I like it. They can hire a trainer too. Collars can be sexy.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Renae
SFN Regular

543 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  05:21:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Renae a Private Message
Blame my liberal education and my hippie parents if you must (I'm going to start using this as a general disclaimer for all my views)...

But why does one person need to be "in control" in a marriage? Why is one person necessarily dominant? Can't marriage exist between equals--with the couple as partners, rather than as parent/child?

(insert "duh" here because the above is a rhetorical paragraph.)

More antiquated, conservative, dysfunctional thinking from people--and there are many like her--who struggle to walk the world feeling secure and strong. It's the old "personal power" vs. "power over others" paradigm. My power in the world has nothing to do with anybody else; it comes from within. I generate it and I maintain it (sometimes not very well, LOL, but still.)

I bet the author has a closet full of leather.
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  05:30:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
I know this is probably supposed to piss me off - but it doesn't. There's a lot of truth in what she says. You guys have such big egos!

It's all just a little play-acting to keep things in balance. Married men do it, too. "No, honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat!" The only difference is that a book to help guys on that score would never sell. (Any guy desperate enough to buy it has already lost the ego that makes all good things possible. )

This woman is winking at women. She's saying "play the game". She obviously isn't letting her man support her. She's written at least three books!

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  05:38:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I'm not sure what she's written. There is some truth to the fact that it's not a good idea to be negative all the time. It's not a good idea to want to run everything and criticize constantly. If she wrote that, that's a good thing. I'm probably not going to read the book so I don't know. It's just fun to try to control authors by constantly criticizing everything that they do.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  06:46:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
lol, precisely, Wendy.
It's all a question of letting them think they're in charge while you manipulate 'em silly.

Me? For all I care for, they can kiss my ass. Just don't pass me any diseases while at it.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Edited by - Siberia on 03/12/2005 06:48:22
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13474 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  10:40:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
TIME Magazine I Surrender, Dear
BY TAMALA M. EDWARDS:

But some of Doyle's ideas seem demeaning and questionable. Men are to be
given the finances, regardless of who in the relationship is better with
money. (Doyle says men need this in order to feel masculine.) Wives are to
request a weekly or monthly cash stipend. Even if men make some early bad
decisions, she argues, they will learn quickly, and wives will find them
generous. (Try telling that to the naive women standing in divorce court or
dealing with their dead husbands' debtors.) If your husband misses the right
freeway exit, stay quiet, she counsels, even "if he keeps going in the wrong
direction ... past the state line." If he asks for your opinion on which
shirt to wear or how to deal with the boss, you should smile serenely and
say, "Whatever you think," because by "telling him what you think you risk
contradicting him...he wants to know you bless what he thinks more."

"What she is saying here is how to manipulate your husband," warns
Philadelphia therapist Michael Broder. "True intimacy comes from being able
to express your true thoughts and feelings." But Doyle counters that her
book is not hard doctrine or meant for everyone. "If your behavior is
extreme, and you're being pushed to the other extreme, you're likely to end
up in the middle. I don't expect you to do this perfectly. I still don't."
(She does it well enough for her husband, who has called their marriage "an
empowering" experience.)


http://archives.his.com/smartmarriages/2001-January/msg00018.html

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Renae
SFN Regular

543 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  11:34:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Renae a Private Message
quote:
Men are to be given the finances, regardless of who in the relationship is better with money.


ROFL

I wouldn't give up control of my cash flow to a husband or boyfriend, not ever. In fact, if I ever become temporarily insane and get married, I'm gifting large sums of my savings to my mother for safekeeping.

I also don't buy the theory that men's egos are so weak they need to be fed in such silly ways. This book is actually more patronizing to men than it is to women.

I know lots of men who like and feel secure with strong, independent women. It's possible to be a strong yet caring and loving woman.

I am beyond weary of people who cannot see beyond their own made-up false dichotomies (ie, a woman is either a shrew or a doormat; either loving or controlling, etc.)
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  11:42:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
A book like this makes me scream. Maybe it is just me, but I have a hard time seeing a marage truelly work unless both parterners treat each other as equals and reconises that each has strengths and weaknesses. Just giving up control doesn't fix the marage, it hides the problems of the marage.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
Edited by - Paulos23 on 03/12/2005 11:43:04
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2005 :  12:04:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy

Married men do it, too. "No, honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat!"
Any man who offers such an answer is an idiot, because "Does this dress make me look fat?" is a trick question. 'Yes' is out of the question, but a 'no' answer implies "it's not the dress that's making you look fat," so it's just as bad as, if not worse than 'yes'. Really, the questions asks, "do I look fat, or am I actually fat?"

The correct answer, of course, is "I dunno, since you always look hot to me."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2005 :  18:13:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

The correct answer, of course, is "I dunno, since you always look hot to me."


You can never go wrong with that one!

Renae and Paulos23, I do understand where you're coming from - I just refuse to take shit like this seriously.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2005 :  09:04:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Plyss

You ladies should all read this.
In sharp contrast to popular opinion men enjoy being married to braindead ameuba.

quote:

ompassionate and practical, The Surrendered Wife is a step-by-step guide that teaches women how to:

* Give up unnecessary control and responsibility
* Resist the temptation to criticize, belittle, or dismiss their husbands
* Trust their husbands in every aspect of marriage -- from sexual to financial
And more.





I'm familiar with this book. Doyle has deep ties to the radical fundamentalist Christian movement. It is based on the belief that women are inferior to men. My brother has been a member of churches with similar messages about women. That they should never question their husbands and should just shut up and listen to them on all matters. There's some Biblical Old Testament stuff to back it up.

It's still a load of crap. Amongst other things, it's what made me reject Christianity as my spiritual path.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2005 :  10:01:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Well marriage is the problem in the first place, my very intelligent grandmother never married a second time, and has a loving 30 year relationship with great respect for each others ideas and individuality, the traits they learned to love[/sappy story]

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2005 :  10:07:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sweetmiracle a Private Message
I've had a bit of experience in this realm....some people in the homeschooling group we used to belong to actually taught their daughters that men are wiser than women, that they are more valuable to God....sad to hear the little girls parrotting that nonsense.

While I'm sure some marriages would improve if both parties learned to treat each other with respect - not to "criticize, belittle, or dismiss" one another - there are ways to deal with difficulties other than to just endure them as a silent )or vocal) martyr.

But it's still my life, and I have to live it, so I'll have my say.

There's lots of NT stuff to back this crap up. too. Paul the misogynist made sure of that!

Now I'm off to the kitchen.... and he's stolen my shoes again , so it's back to the bedroom to try for # 12....





Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

-Carl Sagan
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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2005 :  12:09:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
I am a neat freak married to a man Freud would say toilet-trained too late. Fortunately, I am sane enough to realize it can't be fun to hear "Pick that up!" all the time, and my husband is considerate enough to understand I don't want to spend every morning of my life helping him look for his glasses and car keys. We work it out on our own (we also have our own checking accounts) but some people need help seeing their partner's point of view.

I am not endorsing this book. I would not even recommend it to anyone else, but it doesn't make me see red. I think the conclusion of the article Kil posted summed it up pretty well (emphasis mine):
quote:
Doyle refers naysayers to her pleased disciples. Rachel Godwin, 23, used to demand that her husband Lenny wear his Adidas socks only with his Adidas sneakers, never his Nikes. Now, she says, Doyle's methods have salvaged her troubled marriage. Yet Judy Divine, 61, a remarried retiree, has a mixed reaction. Divine turned over the finances to her husband Bob and became less critical. But Bob, it turns out, likes her opinion and doesn't want to hear
"whatever you think" all the time. Divine says she would give the book to a friend but would tell her, "You may not want all of this, but there's some valuable stuff here." It may be tougher for the rest of us to find the diamonds amid all the coal.


I truly believe any woman who comes away from this book believing she is inferior to men already believed that before she ever picked up the book.


Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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way
New Member

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2005 :  12:33:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send way a Private Message
Having been married for 20+ years to a woman with an IQ approximately equal to mine, I'd like a chance to go back and do it all over again with a braindead "ameuba" to see if life is easier or harder. Of course, it could just be me.
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