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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:02:56
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Well, angered by the entire Schiavo fiasco in the media, I was prompted by some recent conversations to look into the claims made on a couple of conservative news programs last week. Specifically the claim that Dr Hammesfahr of FL is a Nobel Prize nominee.
Well, as I shall attempt to illustrate in detail, he is nothing of the sort.
First, let me present a link to FOX news in which Dr Hammesfahr is reffered to by Hannity, and makes the claim himself, as being a Nobel Prize nominee.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151148,00.html
quote:
DR. BILL HAMMESFAHR: Thanks for having me.
HANNITY: You were nominated for a Nobel Prize (search) in medicine?
HAMMESFAHR: Yes.
HANNITY: In 1999? For your work...
HAMMESFAHR: ... in patients like Terri. For brain injury and stroke patients. We discovered how you get these people better, and we did it for 10 years with Medicare. We got evaluated by the state of Florida and we first discovered a technique that works in people like Terri.
and
quote:
HAMMESFAHR: Terri is completely aware and conscious and responsive. She is like a child with cerebral palsy. We have kids in the Pinellas County school system every day that are much worse than her, that we're educating.
HANNITY: Doctor, wait a minute. I've got to get this straight here.
You were nominated to get a Nobel Peace Prize in this very work. Are you saying that this woman could be rehabilitated?
HAMMESFAHR: Absolutely.
HANNITY: Could she talk one day?
HAMMESFAHR: Yes.
HANNITY: Then how is it possible we're in this position if you have examined her, you were up for a Nobel Prize. I -- this is mind boggling to me.
He continues to hammer in the phrase "Nobel Prize" throughout the interview.
Over on MSNBC, Joe Scarborough does the same thing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7266464/
A quote from the intro:
quote:
SCARBOROUGH: Congress struggles to save a young woman‘s life, but did they rip up the Constitution to do it?
And a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo, he says Terri should live and that her husband is perpetrating a hoax that is just aimed at killing his wife.
On to the interview:
quote:
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Thanks so much, Joe diGenova. We greatly appreciate you being here tonight.
You know, we‘ve been getting a lot of information out there about this case. And is it misinformation? Well, we don‘t know because there‘s been a battle back and forth, not only with his family that we‘ve been following, but also on the floor of Congress.
So, what is Terri Schiavo‘s true medical condition? Here to help us sort it out is Dr. William Hammesfahr. He‘s a neurologist who was nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in medicine. And he‘s one of the doctors who has treated Terri Schiavo.
Now, Doctor, if you can, clarify for us her situation. Obviously, you investigated that situation. Her husband says that she‘s in a permanent vegetative state. You don‘t believe that, do you?
DR. WILLIAM HAMMESFAHR, NEUROLOGIST: No, she‘s not in a permanent vegetative state at all.
SCARBOROUGH: Is he lying about that?
HAMMESFAHR: He‘s absolutely misrepresenting what‘s happening.
Oh... and apparently the good doctor thinks he is a 21st century Quincy! Read this next quote:
quote:
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Doctor, tell me this. Has she gotten better or worse under her husband‘s care?
HAMMESFAHR: Much worse.
SCARBOROUGH: How‘s that?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, first of all, she didn‘t have a heart attack. The first story that gets circulated is that she had a heart attack due to an eating disorder or an electrolyte imbalance.
SCARBOROUGH: That‘s not true?
HAMMESFAHR: No, not true.
She didn‘t have a heart attack. And when you have a heart attack, your body releases chemicals called enzymes from the heart muscle in the bloodstream. And those enzymes were never present. She didn‘t have—she did have an electrolyte imbalance, but not severe enough to cause problems. It was probably brought on by the ambulance service giving her a little bit too much fluid.
We know that electrolyte imbalances that they talk about cause heart attacks as a means of causing death. And we know she didn‘t have a heart attack. So, she didn‘t have an electrolyte imbalance. There‘s no evidence of any sort that she had an eating disorder leading up to her collapse. She didn‘t have a heart attack. So, what did happen? Well, she didn‘t have anything wrong with her, as far as we can tell. Her lungs were good. She had no signs of infections. So, there was never an explanation for why this happened to her.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, how did she get in this bad of a situation if she didn‘t have a heart attack?
HAMMESFAHR: Well, we don‘t really know. What we do know is that she was—she apparently told her family she was going to leave Michael. And they asked that she not return to him that night. And the next morning, she is found face down on the floor unresponsive.
... Do I even need to comment? No.
Now, another point of this post is mainly to illustrate a little hypocrisy. Hannity and Scarborough were among the programs who bashed Rather for weeks and weeks over his failure to adequately fact check those memos. But here we have these two gents making a serious claim of credibility on behalf of a guest on their shows. A guest who is supposed to be providing expert testimony in a case where, if this expert is correct, a life hangs in the balance.
They (Hannity and Scarborough) both tout Dr Hammesfahr as a nominee for the 1999 Nobel Prize in Medicine. That's it folks, there is no higher level of prestige except to win. To be nominated for a Nobel Prize means that you are one of the best in your field. You have made significant contributions to your science.
Before I go further, let me elaborate slightly on the actual process of Nobel Prize nomination.
http://nobelprize.org/medicine/nomination/index.html
and
http://nobelprize.org/medicine/nomination/nominators.html
Give us the details on WHO is allowed to make Nobel PRize nominations for medicine/physiology.
quote:
The process of selecting a winner of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine starts in September, about a year before the prize announcement. At this time, the prize-awarder in Stockholm (The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet) sends out invitations to about 3,000 people who are allowed to propose winners. These are mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world. (Nominators »)
The nominations reach the Nobel Assembly between September and February. Many suggest the same person, and therefore the total number of recommended candidates is usually about 200 to 300.
and
quote:
Right to submit proposals for the award of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, based on the principle of competence and universality, shall by statute be enjoyed by:
1. Members of the Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm;
2. Swedish and foreign members of the medical class of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences;
3. Nobel Laureates in Physiology or Medicine;
4. Members of the Nobel Committee not qualified under paragraph 1 above;
5. Holders of established posts as professors at the faculties of medicine in Sweden and holders of similar posts at the faculties of medicine or similar institutions in Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway;
6. Holders of similar posts at no fewer than six other faculties of medicine selected by the Assembly, with a view to ensuring the appropriate distribution of the task among various countries and their seats of learning; and
7. Practitioners of natural sciences whom the Assembly may otherwise see fit to approach.
Decisions concerning the selection of the persons appointed under paragraphs 6 and 7 above are taken before the end of May each year on the recommendation of the Nobel Committee.
Now, a little know fact. The actual list of nominees for the Nobel Prize is kept SECRET for 50 years! Yes, FIFTY YEARS. So, how then could a person nominated in 1999 who clearly didn't win be known as a nominee? Answer: They wouldn't be.
So. Who do you think it was who nominated Dr Hammesfahr for the 1999 Nobel Prize for medicine or physiology? I'll tell you!
Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL)
http://www.hnionline.com/nobel_prize_nomination.htm
Apparently this isn't the FIRST time that Rep. Bilirakis though it was OK for him to name somebody as a Nobel nominee:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r105:E01AP8-162:
Yep. Seems that he thought he was qualified to nominate people for a Nobel Prize. Damn... it must be one hell of a powertrip to be in the US Congress. The sheer audacity boggles my mind.
Ok.... Now, the question I have is a simple one:
If I can crank up a google search and investigate this matter of a claim to be a Nobel nominee (I admit I was aware that the list of Nobel nominees was kept secret for 50 years, so my bullshit detector went immediately into overload), WHY CAN'T MSNBC and FOX News?
IF these two cretins posing as reporters can demand accountability from Dan Rather, then so do I demand accountability from them.
It is SO well known that the Nobel list is maintained in secret that the only conclusion is that these two deliberately falsified the credentials of this doctor. The fact that this doctor, who also HAS to be aware of Nobel policy concerning the list of nominees, NEVER denies the title of Nobel Nominee speaks volumes about his character and credibility.
His "Nobel Prize" nomination is as credible as my degree and state of priesthood granted by the ULC!
Looks like I can now add Dr Hammesfahr to my personal list of physicians in Pinellas County FL who are never to come within 100 feet of the medical care of me or my family.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:25:08 [Permalink]
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| *Raises Hand* also a minister of the ULC, blaspheming all the way. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:31:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
*Raises Hand* also a minister of the ULC, blaspheming all the way.
*Raises hand*
Here, too. Ordained in 1992 in the Church of the Cosmic Party.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:48:46 [Permalink]
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| Dude, if you're adding to your list of quacks, you may want to check out Hammesfahr's "Medforum" (where you can also read about the doctor's extensive experience (i.e. none) with PVS patients that has made him such a recognized authority on the subject). Almost all of the doctors on the "editorial board" are from the Clearwater area. Fair warning! |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 11:58:44 [Permalink]
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| Shshhh! No taking negativly about Clearwater, the SueBirds will hear you. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 12:04:33 [Permalink]
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| Dude awesome research, have you elevated this to any of the blogs or other independant media out there like buzzflash? |
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 12:32:20 [Permalink]
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bloody_peasant, the SFN is independent media. We may not be big, but those other independent media outlets were small at one time, too.
Oh, and links to the other relevant threads: |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 12:42:41 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, I was wondering about the Clearwater angle. Is Hammesfahr...one of THEM? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:00:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pfretzschner
Yeah, I was wondering about the Clearwater angle. Is Hammesfahr...one of THEM?
*raises hand* I too, am ordained by the ULC and pastor of the Church of the Dessicated Cockroach (services held at the biker bar every Fri. & Sat night; anyone willing to buy a round is welcone).
Well done, Dude. With any luck at all, this will come back to bite all concerned.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:04:32 [Permalink]
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| Dave W I agree, I just think if we had found something original (which appears we haven't) it would behoove us to pass the information along to other sources. I don't mean to setup any sense of competition against the so-called big guys, but getting this info in front of as many eyes for the greater good seems more important than a single site holding onto something. Agreed? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:36:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bloody_peasant
Dave W I agree, I just think if we had found something original (which appears we haven't) it would behoove us to pass the information along to other sources. I don't mean to setup any sense of competition against the so-called big guys, but getting this info in front of as many eyes for the greater good seems more important than a single site holding onto something. Agreed?
I apologize for being snippy, bloody_peasant. My objection was more geared towards the probably-not-intended-by-you implication that the SFN won't ever be more than a "little guy." I've got big dreams for this place, and I'm sure much of the rest of the staff do, as well.
As for "holding onto something": no. Dude's work is his own, and the SFN wouldn't dare attempt to stifle his (or anyone else's) publication elsewhere. Of course, it'd be more pleasant (while we are still a "little guy") to have other sites link to original research and/or opinion pieces here, rather than republish, it's not our choice to make. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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pfretzschner
Skeptic Friend
USA
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:41:18 [Permalink]
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| Wow! Kooks debunking other kooks by applying kookery! Fun! |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:49:25 [Permalink]
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This explains everything. I had looked for Hammersfahrs name on the Nobel nominee list and it wasn't there. Then on Air America Al Frankin kept saying there was no list or something to that effect. I had found all the other stuff and so had Air America about the people who are on the nominating committee and the Congressman who wasn't. Now I see I misread the 1949 end date for the list. Ooops. Now I'm gonna have to correct a post on JREF and you can't edit those after a day or so. Maybe I should keep quiet about it unless challenged since the point is the same, Hammersfahr was not a Nobel nominee.
I should also point out if I haven't already (I've got to start keeping better track of which forums I post what on  ), Hammersfahr's web site lists a forum as where is stuff has been 'peer reviewed' and the letters of recommendation he posts to advertise his clinic are from physical therapists and other non-neurology physician peers. And has it been mentioned he was also disciplined by the Florida Medical Board for making false claims advertising his clinic? Which is interesting because you find the Nobel claim on another site besides the clinic site. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2005 : 13:54:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bloody_peasant
Dave W I agree, I just think if we had found something original (which appears we haven't) it would behoove us to pass the information along to other sources. I don't mean to setup any sense of competition against the so-called big guys, but getting this info in front of as many eyes for the greater good seems more important than a single site holding onto something. Agreed?
I'm not sure if you are referring to the Hammersfahr stuff or the Scientology stuff, but the Hammersfahr stuff has been uncovered by at least the Air America staff and discussed by Al Frankin. Al tried to point that out to Scarborough who had Al on the show. Scarborough said Al was "digging in the weeds" and cut him off claiming he needed to give the other guests time to speak.
*Not intended in any way to downplay the excellence of the opening post here. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/29/2005 13:57:04 |
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