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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
 Posted - 04/06/2005 : 12:58:11 [Permalink]
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If you feel the "Runners' High" all day long? You don't need this art. If you feel the highest energy you have ever felt called the "Spirit of Vitality" all day long? Read no further. In other words, if you feel the vital energy after just minutes of training like we do all day long? You don't need this art.
http://www.mindboxing.com/
To measure the internal force, get a big kicking sheild and hold it to you body. If someone skilled hits it, it would penentrate like an unseen wave right through the bag into you. Or if someone is very skilled, if too people grabbed their arms, one on each arm, they could draw in their elbows and pull down both guys. Or be able to throw several people off.
I said if everyone practiced spiritual practices and if poeple could move things without touching, there wouldn't need to be martial arts. But in this world, and certainly ancient CHina, you gotta defend your self, your business, or your village. If you live in the mountains you might not need as extenseve MA skill than if you lived in Beijing in 1900, or a village in the 1600s. |
| Edited by - Kilik on 04/06/2005 13:07:34 |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:12:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilik
To measure the internal force, get a big kicking sheild and hold it to you body. If someone skilled hits it, it would penentrate like an unseen wave right through the bag into you.
This neither defines nor demonstrates "vitality" nor "qi." It doesn't measure anything, and only allows someone to experience some sort of force. But what that force is, and how much there is of it, cannot be determined through such practices as you have described.quote:
I said if everyone practiced spiritual practices and if poeple could move things without touching, there wouldn't need to be martial arts. But in this world, and certainly ancient CHina, you gotta defend your self, your business, or your village.
Are you really so naive as to think that if everyone was powerful, nobody would abuse that power? Time to take off the rose-colored glasses, Kilik. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:15:29 [Permalink]
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| Oh yes, it could be abused, and that would create unique problems. BUt that's alot different than Martial Arts in the past. It would be a different situation in the world at that point is what I'm saying. ABuse a MA and someone could be hurt though. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:33:59 [Permalink]
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Kilik, there is no such thing as Qi. All the links you provide will not change that fact. I do not care about the properties or relationships of a fictional substance/force.
If you want to convince anyone of anything, start there. Prove Qi exists. Without that the rest of your philosophy is pure rubbish.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:37:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilik
Oh yes, it could be abused, and that would create unique problems. BUt that's alot different than Martial Arts in the past. It would be a different situation in the world at that point is what I'm saying. ABuse a MA and someone could be hurt though.
You're not getting it: when everyone is an MA, a lot of people are going to get hurt. Power corrupts. Martial arts do not transform people into "perfect beings" who always rise above petty human concerns. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:57:22 [Permalink]
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A TENS machine is definitely connected to qi energy. However if you remove a TENS machine the effect instantly stops, if you practice qigong the vitalisation is much much more powerful than anything else, also improves health alot, not just sensations.
THe vitalisation last all day, and moves and changes through the day, and even till the next morning. Running don't do it, not even close.
http://www.bodyclock.co.uk/questions.html
http://www.taijigongfu.com/healthmartial.html
BUt how is everything not governed by Qi? Modern technology has shown it. Nerve bundles and plexuses correspont to CHakras, and many things have been shown to follow qi principles, even in the marco or microscopic realms.
In other words the body and mind is much more powerful in gaining and generating energy than a battery powered machine. |
| Edited by - Kilik on 04/06/2005 14:04:32 |
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 14:04:43 [Permalink]
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Wow fascinating stuff:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8070042
You stick a needle in somebody and it causes nerves to fire, who woulda thunkit? /sarcasm
quote:
To measure the internal force, get a big kicking sheild and hold it to you body. If someone skilled hits it, it would penentrate like an unseen wave right through the bag into you.
Been there done that. Even seen my ex-head master strike a stack of 6 2" concrete caps and only break the 5th one. Sadly though no magic force is needed, just conditioning, strong focus, and the laws of physics as the force travels through the bricks. I was able to knock a heavier opponent across the room with a short small punch. Again no magic force, just the right technique and basic physics plus lots of conditioning (and I mean lots).
quote:
Or if someone is very skilled, if too people grabbed their arms, one on each arm, they could draw in their elbows and pull down both guys. Or be able to throw several people off.
Same applies here.
Interesting articles on the magnetic fields, I wonder what other things influence a human's magnetic field. |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 14:15:40 [Permalink]
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MAs are for protection. It is the reality of the world, especially at the time. But if you can move things without touching, and are at that level of development, well hell, maybe paece world peace is possible! Until then, I see nothing wrong with martial arts. It would be nice, but not everyone is there yet.
Plus though, MAs can make someone more dangerous, but also more in control, and know how to simply subdue or capture someone. Or escapse perhaps too or put up a respectable showing when captured. |
| Edited by - Kilik on 04/06/2005 14:18:06 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 14:31:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilik
Plus though, MAs can make someone more dangerous, but also more in control.
How is it then you are unable to control your thoughts long enough to address simple questions? How many Qi blows to the solar plexus have you taken?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/06/2005 14:32:22 |
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Kilik
BANNED
110 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 15:12:39 [Permalink]
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I can't talk about what MA clubs I'm in on the internet anymore, or make internet challenge matches. I will delete this post.
I can say though, I've trained here some. It is sport oriented. But hey sport is full contact.
http://www.pridegym.ca/ |
| Edited by - Kilik on 04/06/2005 15:13:14 |
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend
Netherlands
231 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 15:14:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bloody_peasant
Been there done that. Even seen my ex-head master strike a stack of 6 2" concrete caps and only break the 5th one. Sadly though no magic force is needed, just conditioning, strong focus, and the laws of physics as the force travels through the bricks. I was able to knock a heavier opponent across the room with a short small punch. Again no magic force, just the right technique and basic physics plus lots of conditioning (and I mean lots).
Last weekend i spent three days training with Mutsuko Minegishi sensei. Being pinned to the ground with a single finger by a 65-year old tiny Japanese woman is decidedly odd, i can assure you.
Nonetheless, i see no magic powers in this. It's 33 years of experience and an intricate knowledge of biomechanics that seem to be all that is needed for such tricks. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 17:15:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilik
THis exercise will stimulate alot of energy, to generate alot of electricity buzzing through the body and solar plexus. A machine cannot penetrate as deep, or for as long lasting. It also stimulates the heart rythm.
http://www.meditation-techniques.net/meditations/starexercise.htm
Part alkalinosis, part psychology. Nifty stuff. No demonstration or measurement of "qi," though.quote:
MAs are for protection. It is the reality of the world, especially at the time. But if you can move things without touching, and are at that level of development, well hell, maybe paece world peace is possible! Until then, I see nothing wrong with martial arts. It would be nice, but not everyone is there yet.
Plus though, MAs can make someone more dangerous, but also more in control, and know how to simply subdue or capture someone. Or escapse perhaps too or put up a respectable showing when captured.
"Maybe," "can," "perhaps." Until you can show that martial arts will make everyone who acquires it peaceful and in control (including those with serious psychopathies), the idea that these arts will bring about world peace is simply laughable.
And no, these is nothing wrong with martial arts (I don't know where you got the idea that anyone here was saying that). What's "wrong" is that you come here with claims about "qi" and "vitality" which cannot be demonstrated, measured or even defined. Nothing you've shown so far needs to be explained by "vibrations" or "energy," it's all been explainable via folklore, physics, kinesthesiology, psychology and blood chemistry. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 00:25:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilik
A TENS machine is definitely connected to qi energy.
You are not paying attention.
Until you can show evidence of this energy, a statement such as this is pure BS.
As you have been told, qi was an old explanation to phenomenons now explained with mechanics and physiology.
There is no evidence of qi.
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