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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/20/2005 : 01:22:39 [Permalink]
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I wish we could have been of more help, or failing that, at least more optimistic.
quote:
And thank you for the information on lizards and fish. My 2nd graders love to hear new information on their favorite animals and I'll be sure a certain child tells his parents that certain creatures can change thenselves sexually unlike humans.
You have but to ask, and we will bore you to distraction on the topics. For example, in some fish sex change is not triggered by circumstance, but is a routine part of the animal's life. All largemouth bass start out as males, then when reaching a certain size/age, become female. The trophy bass that we rednecks make such a fuss over are all girls. And snails and slugs are all hermaphrodites, if I've spelled that right. Probably the best sexual reproductive strategy out there.
And the bulk of the species on earth today reproduce asexually.
I hope that this child strong enough to get through this unfortunate situation ok. I further hope that his parents come to deal with it in a more civilized manner.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 01:32:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Probably the best sexual reproductive strategy out there.
 Define best!
If so why do you think genders evolved?
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 09:02:02 [Permalink]
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Well each development isnt always due to being the best reason, just that it worked well enough to be sucessful. Evolution will never acheive a 'best' something, unless compared only to creatures already evolved.
and humans arnt exactly evolving normally by any means, so really comparing human socio/emotional issues to normal evolution issues doesnt work too well. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 04/26/2005 09:01:06 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 10:24:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Probably the best sexual reproductive strategy out there.
Define best!
From an evolutionary point of view, most likely to pass along genetic material.
quote:
If so why do you think genders evolved?
Because 1/2 of some species were tired of getting screwed.
All very simple, really. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend
USA
139 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 11:26:49 [Permalink]
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Plyss
I finally got to look at my text last and it jarred some other foggy memories of mine and I will have recant on the 70/30 bit  .
I now recall why the 70/30 piece came up in my Phys Anth class. The professor (a great professor at CU, Van Gerven http://www.colorado.edu/Anthropology/people/bios.html#vangerven) was busy literally destroying and thoroughly debunking the book "The Bell Curve" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0029146739/qid=1114020144/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-2174068-3215362 ).
For those not familiar, "The Bell Curve" revives the old Hereditarian claims of the early 20th century (aka Social Darwinism). One of the main claim of this book is that intelligence is highly determined by genetics/inheritance (the same position of the Hereditarians when they started systems of Eugenics, forced sterilization, etc. back in the 1930's). Also the more controversial point is their biased presentation of differences in racial IQ data. The fact that they leave out several studies that account for environmental differences that were available to them, and instead relied on one study that only examined race speaks volumes of their agenda. One study (sadly I can't remember the name) used the same data, but accounted for 6 environmental factors. This study reduced what was a 15 point difference to less than a 2 point difference. This study despite being done years before "The Bell Curve" is never mentioned in the book.
Now how did they determine that intelligence was predominately determined by inheritance? Well according to my Evolutionary Biology text the method is fairly simple and so is the formula. Heritability (H) = Delta of Genetic Phenotypic Variation (dG) divided by Delta of Total Phenotypic Variation (dV). Determining dV fairly is simple, measure the trait in question for the total population or a statistically significant sized sample and calculate its total range of variation. Determining the dG is a little more involved, but discussed in detail in a later chapter that I briefly skimmed. It amounts to comparing variations among twins, siblings, first cousins, and non-relatives and determine the correlation of variation vs. distance of genetic similarity.
Now comes the important part and the part I managed to mangle and totally forget  . The heritability of a trait can be determined for a population, but it cannot be extrapolated to other populations. When "The Bell Curve" tries to claim intelligence is highly inherited it is using studies from one population and trying to extrapolate them to other populations claiming it is true for all of them. So my claim about the 70/30 rule applies only to the population or populations that were examined and is not a rule but a characteristic of a particular population. My apologies, but thanks for pointing it out so I could go back and relearn some things. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2005 : 23:06:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
They told me the problem will be solved within the next few weeks and that the situation was that the childs older brother had been sent away to be "reprogrammed". "Reprogrammed?" I asked. It turns out the older brother had been caught kissing another boy by his parents and they sent the child off to be "sexually reprogrammed".
If the kid doesn't end up chopping his parents into pieces small enough to be stored in individual freezerbags for later consumption, he'll prob end up joining old Fred Phelps church.
Allthough, my first thought of the idea of "sexual reprogramming" went down an interesting path... assuming that these people are trying to interest these kids in members of the opposite gender, how do they go about it? The image in my mind was of some type of pavlovian conditioning involving strippers, sex, and some type of reward for the "correct" behaviors. Then I thought, maybe these kids aren't really gay.... just conning their parents into sending them to a sex camp.
But I really have no idea what these camps do to try and "cure" gayness.
Back on topic...
I have been reading some articles recently that say the human brain has a gender.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 03:00:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I have been reading some articles recently that say the human brain has a gender.
Well I think there would be some genetic traits as well as mostly socialized traits.
I just know it wasn't all social cues that made my friend's daughter go for the Barbies and my son go for the video games.
And a friend of mine I grew up with that was gay was a different kid from his peers as a child.
It may not be clear what is genetic and what isn't, but there is no way none of it is genetic and the brain would have to be involved. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 09:05:03 [Permalink]
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| I'm starting a reprogramming clinic for misguided young hot chicks who seem to think copious amounts of sex with science geeks is abnormal. I need a catchy name though...Cresting Hills Clinic for Women.....2.0, yes thats nice. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 09:39:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
I'm starting a reprogramming clinic for misguided young hot chicks who seem to think copious amounts of sex with science geeks is abnormal. I need a catchy name though...Cresting Hills Clinic for Women.....2.0, yes thats nice.
BPS, need a "certified therapist"? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 10:25:02 [Permalink]
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| We're only hiring well endowed females at the current time, god knows these girls get distracted with just one man around... |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2005 : 19:22:48 [Permalink]
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I read something a couple of months ago [sorry, can't remember many details, and Google hasn't helped] in which a gay activist asked a Christian preacher, "When did you become heterosexual?" The preacher had no answer for that, saying that he'd always been straight. The gay activist said it was the same for him.
Also, today's news that gay men's brains process smell more like female brains lends support to the theory that gays are biologically different from straights - it's something that happens to a person long before they have any influence/awareness of the process, if not before they are conscious at all. |
trish |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 13:33:23 [Permalink]
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Well of course there is the fact that a number of very Republican and religious households have produced gay children, Alan Keyes' daughter, the Cheney daughter, Newt's sister, to name but a few. So how did they 'learn' to be gay in those settings?. And I presume most gays come from heterosexual family unions so how did they 'learn' to become gay?
Anyone who has known a child who grew up to become gay may remember behaviors that were different in early childhood. I know my neighbor and good friend certainly acted differently as a child. None of the other boys cared if they had 'real butter' on their toast or built elaborate cities in the dirt with the girl across the street, (me). Of course building the big reservoir above the town and blowing the dam to see how the sewer system would hold up might have meant not all the boy in you goes if you are growing up gay. |
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