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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2005 :  21:06:13  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
P.T. Barnum may not have said it, but it is SO freakin true. There IS a sucker born every minute!

I got this little add in an email today. If you can ignore the deficiencies of grammar, it is kinda funny actually.

http://www.crocinamillion.info/fvd/

Betting they sell a bunch of this crap.

Maybe we should start an SFN experiment (all procedes to benefit the SFN, of course). Just buy up some generic bottles of dilute liquid niacin, print some crazy claim on the label(in accordance with the FDA rules and other laws, of course), and see how many people we can convince to buy it for 10 times the actual cost if we make up some dumb-ass sounding name and claim for it.

"You can feel the rush as our liquid croc-amalgamate energizes your immune system!"

Fuck... If I didn't have morals I could be running this as a home business.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth

Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2005 :  23:00:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

P.T. Barnum may not have said it, but it is SO freakin true. There IS a sucker born every minute!

I got this little add in an email today. If you can ignore the deficiencies of grammar, it is kinda funny actually.

http://www.crocinamillion.info/fvd/

Betting they sell a bunch of this crap.

Maybe we should start an SFN experiment (all procedes to benefit the SFN, of course). Just buy up some generic bottles of dilute liquid niacin, print some crazy claim on the label(in accordance with the FDA rules and other laws, of course), and see how many people we can convince to buy it for 10 times the actual cost if we make up some dumb-ass sounding name and claim for it.

"You can feel the rush as our liquid croc-amalgamate energizes your immune system!"

Fuck... If I didn't have morals I could be running this as a home business.





An anti-microbial peptide that kills viruses by penetrating their membranes? This i have to see.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2005 :  02:02:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
They certainly hedge their bets, don't they?
quote:
TERMS & CONDITIONS OF PURCHASE

Delivery Information

We process orders within 24 hours (Mon-Fri). You can expect your order within 21 business days. If your order does not arrive within 21 business days, you may e-mail us for tracking information. If your order does not arrive due to an incorrect address initially entered by the customer, the customer is responsible for reshipping charges.

Refund Policy

If you are not satisfied with your order please return it back to us unopened and in its original condition within 30 days of purchase for a full refund. Products that are returned back to us opened or damaged will not be refunded.

Disclaimer Notice

The information found on this website is for educational purposes only thus giving people knowledge to maintain their own health. We disclaim any liability if the reader uses or prescribes any remedies, natural or otherwise, for him/herself or another.

Limitation of Liability

The Antidote is not liable as a publisher of information nor liable for any damages resulting from the use or inability to use the materials published on this site.

Purchasers agree to hold The Antidote harmless in any claim of product liability.

The customer by purchasing this product agrees to the following:

Delivery Information
Refund Policy
Disclaimer Notice
Limitation of Liability

I particularly liked the refund policy and the liability limits. If you open it, you own it, and if it rots away your innards, well, sorry 'bout that, but you still own it.

I wonder what part of a crocodile is alledgely used to produce this miraculous nostrum. And why an esturine and not, oh, say, a nilotic or a mugger?

[hijack] Crocodile info (you knew I would, didn't you): The largest species, discounting all of the bullshit stories, is considered to be the nilotic, although there is some doubt. Both the nilotic and the esturine (saltwater) attain lengths of somewhat over 20 feet. There has never been a verifiable measurement beyond that.

The oldest living species is thought to be the gavial of India due to it's close similarity to many fossil species.

The title of the biggest one ever is currently held by Sarcosuchus imperator, a 40 foot plus giant that lived some 110 million years ago and was rather like the gavial in appearance (long, narrow snout). Crocodilians are fun![/hijack]

So, scarfing ground 'gator glands once, twice, thrice a year will lay to waste to all virus' and bacteria, will it? I wonder if that includes our gut flora as well. I wonder if Benny Hinn owns stock in the company.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2005 :  05:58:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
From the web page:
The person or company that referred you to this site is a participant in our affiliate program.
Dude, you are so busted.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2005 :  09:56:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
What I would love to see is the owner of the company take some of this, then be injected with tetanus.

Did anyone else see there "Clinical" Trials? They only did a follow up about a month after, even for those with HIV, and some report things such as, "enhanced immune system."

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2005 :  11:30:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

From the web page:
The person or company that referred you to this site is a participant in our affiliate program.
Dude, you are so busted.



Bah.... that means that the person who sent me the email (some email spammer) is in their program.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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TomL_12953
New Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  05:05:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send TomL_12953 an AOL message  Send TomL_12953 a Yahoo! Message Send TomL_12953 a Private Message

An anti-microbial peptide that kills viruses by penetrating their membranes? This i have to see.


Although the site referred to may well be a scam, the science behind it is not:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/680840.stm

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Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  05:35:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by TomL_12953


An anti-microbial peptide that kills viruses by penetrating their membranes? This i have to see.


Although the site referred to may well be a scam, the science behind it is not:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/680840.stm





From the new-site:
quote:

A peptide is a natural chemical made of amino acids strung together that can destroy bacteria by penetrating their membranes.


Ignoring the fact that their definition of a peptide is a bit off this is what i was getting at. The peptides target bacteria, not viruses.
In fact, anti-bacterial peptides are well documented (e.g. nisin)

I suppose i should have phrased my initial criticism better though
Welcome to SFN, TomL_12953
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Trish
SFN Addict

USA
2102 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  08:17:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Trish a Private Message
Hmm, I can't get to the website. But if they are claiming that it 'cures' something then it does fall under the purview of the FDA as a pharmacuetical. In which case, they had better be able to show efficacy. A 'dietary supplement' can make no claims to being a 'cure'. http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dslg-toc.html If you want to print the document.

...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  08:51:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Dude:
Maybe we should start an SFN experiment (all proceeds to benefit the SFN, of course). Just buy up some generic bottles of dilute liquid niacin, print some crazy claim on the label(in accordance with the FDA rules and other laws, of course), and see how many people we can convince to buy it for 10 times the actual cost if we make up some dumb-ass sounding name and claim for it.


You could probably skirt by the FDA rules if you make no claim on the bottle itself. You just set up a website that talks about the wondrous and scientifically validated effects of whatever the active ingredient is, which does not have to be the name of the product. For example, you could, in the case of this crock remedy, reference articles in the popular press that talk about how the study of crock blood may lead to some medical benefits. (Never mind that the preliminary observations may turn out to be more of a curiosity than a cure.)

Once done, use terms like “at the cellular level” and “peptides” and any other scientific sounding verbiage. The bigger the words, the more impressive the claim is. Have a doctor of some kind (Medical doctors are not necessary as long as the person holds at least a PhD, even if was received from a diploma mill. Most people will not check on whom the doc really is and what he has done to earn him the authority to speak on the subject.)

Next, include testimonials. Testimonials are very important. In the world of alternative medicines, anecdotal evidence is the absolute gold standard if you want to attract costumers. “It worked for me” trumps science because evidence based medicine is widely regarded as a conspiracy to keep people sick and to make as much money doing that as possible.

Include disclaimers to keep the FTC off your back.

Top it off with a money back guarantee that usually has so many strings attached that it is nearly impossible for the company to lose money on any one sale, as filthy pointed out.

Alternative meds are a multi billion dollar business, and yes, there is a seemingly endless supply of suckers…


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  08:51:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
But unfortunately, no amount of laws against calling this or that a "cure" will make up for an unfunded mandate. The FDA must enforce the law, and prosecute those who make claims of "cures," but that law provided no money with which to accomplish such police work.

At this moment, there are probably a thousand "cure" claims on the market. The FDA can only afford to prosecute those doing the most blatant or dangerous things, so 990+ of those who break this law will get away with it.

Years ago, a friend of mine was sending complaints to FDA headquarters every time he found such claims, just for psoriasis-related products. After a while, they told him to send his complaints to his local FDA office. They never responded to any of his complaints, nor (apparently) ever took action on any of them.

The Federal Trade Commission also tries to police this, but they too are underfunded and outnumbered.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Trish
SFN Addict

USA
2102 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2005 :  09:34:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Trish a Private Message
True, the FDA must be more concerned with pharmaceuticals and gMP guidelines. Those are by far more important, if my levothyroxin is supposed to be 200 mcg, then it had better have 200 mcg of the medication itself in the pill.

...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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