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latsot
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
70 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  13:47:00  Show Profile  Visit latsot's Homepage  Send latsot a Yahoo! Message Send latsot a Private Message
I bet most of the people on this forum are itching to become reiki masters but just don't feel they can spare the apparently quite small amount of time and effort required to learn how to cure every single malady ever. Why on earth should we expend actual *effort* in order to perform miracles - surely it should be easier than that.

Nevermind - you can now do it in 24 hours!

http://www.spiritual-health-wealth-self.com/reiki-master.html

Cheers


r

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  14:01:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by latsot

I bet most of the people on this forum are itching to become reiki masters but just don't feel they can spare the apparently quite small amount of time and effort required to learn how to cure every single malady ever. Why on earth should we expend actual *effort* in order to perform miracles - surely it should be easier than that.

Nevermind - you can now do it in 24 hours!

http://www.spiritual-health-wealth-self.com/reiki-master.html

Cheers


r

My goodness! Until now, I didn't even know what a Reiki Master is. Ah enlightenment; thou hast removed the scales from mine eyes! Please put them back....

Now, where have I heard this before?
quote:
Well, we don't want you to miss out on the incredible changes Reiki can bring into your life, just because of the high costs presently being charged...

We know how difficult it can be to find the $500 to $1000 being asked by others.

So, we've decided to set the price at a much more acceptable $97.

But Wait...

We fully realize that even $97 could stop many people from becoming the Reiki Masters they deserve to be, so, for a limited time only, we've taken another $30 off the price.

That's right, for a limited time only...

You can now purchase the whole Radical Reiki - Radical Life package which includes the unique Chikara-Reiki-Do self-attunement process, full certification and unlimited help and support for just $97 $67.

So, please hurry... Click Here Now To Order For Just $67


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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latsot
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
70 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  14:39:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit latsot's Homepage  Send latsot a Yahoo! Message Send latsot a Private Message
quote:
We know how difficult it can be to find the $500 to $1000 being asked by others.

So, we've decided to set the price at a much more acceptable $97.



I'm pleased with the arbitrary and ridiculously specific figure of $97, for some reason.

r
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  15:29:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
...the unique Chikara-Reiki-Do ...


Chikara-Reiki-Do? Sounds like a Japanese cartoon character. Or a really bad hairstyle. Or a dance only seen at weddings.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  17:10:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck

Chikara-Reiki-Do? Sounds like a Japanese cartoon character. Or a really bad hairstyle. Or a dance only seen at weddings.

Or an Australian aborigional, musical instrument....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Giltwist
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  23:07:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Giltwist's Homepage  Send Giltwist an AOL message  Send Giltwist an ICQ Message  Send Giltwist a Yahoo! Message Send Giltwist a Private Message
As the self-appointed esoteric guy around here, I'd like to pitch in my thoughts. I believe the human body is capable of generating energy, I even believe that such energy might be useful in healing to some extent. HOWEVER, I have taken an Usui Reiki (apparantly the stem from which all the other traditions have grown) class, and I think that Reiki is by and large a piece of malarky. Besides not feeling any different after the "attunement," I do not buy ANY of the theory that is tied in with Reiki. If this ubiquitous divine energy heals, why only when the Reiki practitioners hands "focus" it on the client? Sure, you need a focus to use sunlight to burn paper, but sunlight is always warm, you know? Secondly, why is it that the hands specifically are focuses? There's nothing particularly special about hands. Anyway, you get my point. I just think it says something about an esoteric practice when even I say it's bupkiss.

G.

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  02:40:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist

As the self-appointed esoteric guy around here, I'd like to pitch in my thoughts. I believe the human body is capable of generating energy, I even believe that such energy might be useful in healing to some extent. HOWEVER, I have taken an Usui Reiki (apparantly the stem from which all the other traditions have grown) class, and I think that Reiki is by and large a piece of malarky. Besides not feeling any different after the "attunement," I do not buy ANY of the theory that is tied in with Reiki. If this ubiquitous divine energy heals, why only when the Reiki practitioners hands "focus" it on the client? Sure, you need a focus to use sunlight to burn paper, but sunlight is always warm, you know? Secondly, why is it that the hands specifically are focuses? There's nothing particularly special about hands. Anyway, you get my point. I just think it says something about an esoteric practice when even I say it's bupkiss.

G.

It's no more than the old 'healing hands' gaff. An old flam dressed up in a new flim.

Historically, it's interesting. I've not seriously studied the topic, but from casual reading it seems that every culture has had these 'healers' in one form or another, and still do. Some don't touch their client mark victim. They merely wave over him or point at him, with due ceremony. The foul and reprehensible Benny Hinn, will actually shove his subject.

In this day and age, it is popular to give these and other scams oriential-sounding names, but it is still the same ol', same ol'. At ninety-seven frog-skins a pop, in this case (with a limited time savings of $30.00).

Left to it's own devices, the human body has some remarkable powers of recovery from many ailments, minor and major. Mumbo & jumbo neither helps nor hinders these processes, apart from withering the afflicted's purse, to benefit of the healer. But that said, sometimes someone dies of his faith in one of these charlatans when modern medicine would have worked.

Religious beliefs in 'the laying on of hands' are the same booshwa, just older.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  04:49:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist

I believe the human body is capable of generating energy, I even believe that such energy might be useful in healing to some extent.


Just curious where these beliefs come from. Can you point me to some data?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Giltwist
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  08:19:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Giltwist's Homepage  Send Giltwist an AOL message  Send Giltwist an ICQ Message  Send Giltwist a Yahoo! Message Send Giltwist a Private Message
quote:

Just curious where these beliefs come from. Can you point me to some data?


Well the body runs on all sorts of electrical impulses. I also know that the EMF that surrounds your average human can interfere with certain sensitive instruments. In general, this interaction just involves a minor fluctuation in reported measurement. However, there have been known to be more potent interactions. See also: The Pauli Effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect )

It's a small jump to consider that sometimes these effects are beneficial and sometimes these effects are harmful. The only question is whether or not they can actually be controled. I figure that, if you can "beat" a polygraph test, there is some evidence of being able to control some of those electrical phenomena.

G.

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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  08:29:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist:

I believe the human body is capable of generating energy, I even believe that such energy might be useful in healing to some extent.


The human body converts energy, it does not create it. It takes the chemical energy stored in the food you eat and converts is to heat, kinetic energy, etc. And that energy also supplies your immune system, which is (if I may state the obvious) essential for healing. No mysteries here, just good old biology. Hell, just this morning I cut my finger, and within an hour, it had stopped bleeding. And I didn't need anyone to focus energy on my finger or utter any magic words over it. Just let them little cells do their thing. Not as mystical or exciting as Reiki-Deiki-Yabba-Dabba-Do, or whatever, but very effective. And a hell of a lot cheaper too.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  09:29:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
The Pauli Effect is based on ancedotes that Wolfgang Pauli was bad luck to have around the lab. This so-called 'effect' was never tested, and indeed treated as a joke. It is a pity that this great scientist, a Nobel Prize winner, is better known by the public for nonsense than his actual accomplishments.

And polygraphs are a crock. Anybody can beat one. I have.
quote:
The dirty little secret behind the polygraph is that the "test" depends on trickery, not science. The person being "tested" is not supposed to know that while the polygraph operator declares that all questions must be answered truthfully, warning that the slightest hint of deception will be detected, he secretly assumes that denials in response to certain questions -- called "control" questions -- will be less than truthful. An example of a commonly used control question is, "Did you ever lie to get out of trouble?" The polygrapher steers the examinee into a denial by warning, for example, that anyone who would do so is the same kind of person who would commit the kind of behavior that is under investigation and then lie about it. But secretly, it is assumed that everyone has lied to get out of trouble.

The polygraph pens don't do a special dance when a person lies. The polygrapher scores the test by comparing physiological responses (breathing, blood pressure, heart, and perspiration rates) to these probable-lie control questions with reactions to relevant questions such as, "Did you ever commit an act of espionage against the United States?" (commonly asked in security screening). If the former reactions are greater, the examinee passes; if the latter are greater, he fails. If responses to both "control" and relevant questions are about the same, the result is deemed inconclusive.


As I recall, Randi has written some scathing articles on the polygraph. The 'evidence' garnered from one in not admissable in court for excellent reason.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  13:26:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
It's a small jump to consider that sometimes these effects are beneficial and sometimes these effects are harmful.


A "small" jump?

More like a huge one.

Not to mention the absolute lack of evidence for such an effect.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  17:36:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist

Well the body runs on all sorts of electrical impulses. I also know that the EMF that surrounds your average human can interfere with certain sensitive instruments.
As can the static field around your average glass rod. Humans aren't any different in this fashion than most other non-grounded carriers of electrical potential. A portable FM radio could probably create a lot more interference in those same pieces of equipment.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  17:39:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist
See also: The Pauli Effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect )

You should consider that wikipedia isn't considered as reliable as real dictionaries. It's subject to editing by layperson, and as such may very well contain inaccuracies.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/19/2005 17:40:33
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  17:47:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by Giltwist
See also: The Pauli Effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect )

You should consider that wikipedia isn't considered as reliable as real dictionaries. It's subject to editing by layperson, and as such may very well contain inaccuracies.



Not to go off topic or anything...

Do you know of any examples where wikipedia was inaccurate (past or present, future if you have paranormal abilities)? I have been using it for a while and fairly often, and haven't seen one.

It seems to me that wikipedia gets moderated fairly heavily.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 06/19/2005 17:50:33
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Giltwist
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2005 :  18:28:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Giltwist's Homepage  Send Giltwist an AOL message  Send Giltwist an ICQ Message  Send Giltwist a Yahoo! Message Send Giltwist a Private Message
quote:

A "small" jump?

More like a huge one.



So you don't think its likely that electromagnetic fields could influence out well being? Wasn't there a whole spiel a while back about electric blankets causing problems because of that? Now I'm gonna have to go look... To be continued...

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm almost positive EMFs have been used to explain certain paranormal phenomena because specific kinds can cause hallucinations or something.

EDIT2: Minnesota Dept. of Health article
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/radiation/emf/

Edited by - Giltwist on 06/19/2005 20:02:27
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