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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2005 :  16:17:22  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
For anyone interested, it's apparently here, and on their respective websites.

The AIG people are using the opportunity to put in a lot of links. Sadly, the Skeptics so far have not. Bad move if they don't!

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2005 :  17:40:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Thus far, AiG has put forth the same old, same old, as have the Skeptics. I don't think that links will matter, at least not this early in the game.

Looking forward to the next round, and especally the rebuttals. That's when it will get good.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2005 :  18:03:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Each argument is limited to 1,500 words


Would linking to things be in violation of the rules? I mean, what is the purpose of the limit when you can just put up 1,500 links (assuming each is one word)? It seems to be a way around this rule, which was to limit the amount of things one can say.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2005 :  18:54:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
All science expects of a theory is that it be testable, falsifiable and corrigible. The theory of evolution is all three. Creationism is none of the three. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. The evidence for special creation is non-existent.

In a nut shell ...

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2005 :  19:12:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Round two is up.

Still nothing that we haven't seen before. Hoping that it get's a little more exciting farther down the road.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9669 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  16:45:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
A question that has bugged me for a while, but I haven't given myself time to research is this:

The non-constant rate of nuclear decay.
They point to the lack of C14 in coal deposits being because it decayed faster at one point. But what constants are at work in the weak nuclear force? What other effects are inevitable if these constants were different?

The first that comes to mind is the nuclear reactions in the Sun. 10% hotter or cooler would be disasterous, yet 10% change is not enough for the creationists argument of different decay-rate in million years old strata.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2005 :  19:54:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

They point to the lack of C14 in coal deposits...
Actually, they're saying that the C14 in coal deposits is too high for it to be old.

They state that accelerator mass spectrometry (AMS) radiocarbon testing can detect carbon-14 at levels of 0.001% of modern carbon, yet one finds levels of 0.24% in carefully-stored samples, obtained from the government.

When I search the web, however, the best precision I can find is 0.3%, which means that their samples are still way down in the noise, and impossible to determine with any accuracy.

This PDF file reports on the installation of a new AMS system, and even reports on tests of "blanks," or samples with no known radiocarbon in them (to find the age limit). Turns out their blanks measured as 0.31% modern carbon, or 46,500 years (plus/minus 600). Though the report admits that the researchers may not have had a "clean" AMS, and so that age may be higher than it should have been.

This page says that AMS can have a sensitivity as much as 10,000 times greater than conventional radiocarbon counting, but it seems that typically, what such sensitivity is used for is reducing the time it takes to get an age, and/or reducing the amount of sample which is required (which is destroyed, so smaller samples are better in archeological work). For example, instead of needing 100 grams of sample being counted for 10 hours, an AMS can run on 0.1 grams of sample for an hour, and get the same results.

Of source, sensitivity is largely independent of accuracy, and such high sensitivity is wasted if the background itself is large (which is what is measured by running a "blank" through the system).

Beta Analytic, Inc. promises only equally accurate results between conventional radiometric counting and AMS, and prices AMS at about twice the cost of radiometric.

In short, it seems obvious to me that wherever John Baumgardner got the idea that AMS can register 0.001% modern carbon, he's completely misapplying the ideas involved, and thus coming to a whacky conclusion.

As usual for creationists.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2005 :  07:35:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Round Three is up, and it's all over.

I find myself a little disappointed. After all the hype at AiG and eleswhere, this turned out to pretty run of the mill. Hell, we've mixed it up better right here on these small boards. But then, I guess we don't have the constraints that they had.

Of course, everybody claims victory, although not a single mind was changed nor even opened to new thoughts on either side. Ah well...


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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