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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2005 : 12:57:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
About a week ago, science comes up in a conversation between myself and a few of my coworkers. After a few minutes of discussion, I come to the realization that one of them is in fact a die-hard YEC. As the topic quickly goes to evolution, Big Bang, and abiogenesis, I can't seem to not point out the various flaws in logic and evidence.
This has been going on for about a week now. So anyway, he tells me to go to this site showing that the Sun is shrinking. At first, I bring him to BA's article on it.
But of course, he tells me that this article is in fact wrong. Here is the site that he wanted me to go to.
Make sure you read the entire thing. He didn't.
Hah! What did he say when you pointed this out to him?
quote:
Impact 82, which constitutes the basis for this argument in creationist circles, makes two severe mistakes. First, the unwarranted presumption that the Eddy & Boornazian result was a done deal, a finished fact. Indeed, in reality it was a result so tentatiive that it never survived beyond the stage of a meeting abstract. Second, the even more unwarranted assumption that, if true, the rate of shrinkage suggested must have been constant over all times past. This is a result of the standard, but quite false, creationist notion that evolutionists are uniformitarians in some strange and literal sense that has never been seen in reality.
and more info... |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 13:20:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Ah, I completely forgot, that is probably the best part. He said:
"Well, NASA said that it was. Oh yea, so now NASA is lying now?"
Of course, when ever I ask him where he got that from, the topic magically changes into The Flood, evolution, or abiogenisis.
The thing you should think about is to make sure that there are others listening: fence-sitters.
Guys as one-track minded this won't change. The best thing you can do is to show his folly to everyone else (in a covert, roundabout way), make them realize how silly this die-hard YEC really is. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 13:22:49 [Permalink]
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If he continues to refuse to supply a source for his claim that NASA has said the Sun is shrinking, I'd be mighty tempted to call him a liar. To his face.
And then ask him what the Bible says about lying. And then ask him what the Bible says about physical violence, as you call the cops because he assaulted you rather than answer the "what does the Bible say about lying" question.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2005 : 13:37:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Ah, I completely forgot, that is probably the best part. He said:
"Well, NASA said that it was. Oh yea, so now NASA is lying now?"
Of course, when ever I ask him where he got that from, the topic magically changes into The Flood, evolution, or abiogenisis.
The only valid reason to argue with these people is if you enjoy it either for the argument's sake, or you have a thing for frustration. If they are at all dedicated, and most are, it is not possible to change their minds whatever the validity of your facts and references. As we have all seen on these hallowed boards.
It's rather like trying to catch an eel in a live well, y'know? You can grab the fucker, but you'll never hang on to it if you don't smack it on the head with a fish billy. And then you have compounded YEC monomania with (further) brain damage, and are worse off than before.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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AKM
New Member
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 12:23:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
It's rather like trying to catch an eel in a live well, y'know? You can grab the fucker, but you'll never hang on to it if you don't smack it on the head with a fish billy.
Great analogy, so accurate, although I would agree with Dr. Mabuse about the fence-sitters. To try and talk sense and logic to YEC types is fruitless, and there would be no point in doing so if your aim was to try and make them see their error. But save for the fact that you may be able to convince others, especially when you know your facts and can easily quote sources for the fence-sitters, I think is well worth confronting YEC types. |
"Leadership is not magnetic personality—that can just as well be a glib tongue. It is not "making friends and influencing people"—that is flattery. Leadership is lifting a person's vision to higher sights, the raising of a person's performance to a higher standard, the building of a personality beyond its normal limitations." Peter F. Drucker
"If we could sell our experiences for what they cost us, we'd all be millionaires." Abigail Van Buren |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 13:47:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by AKM
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
It's rather like trying to catch an eel in a live well, y'know? You can grab the fucker, but you'll never hang on to it if you don't smack it on the head with a fish billy.
Great analogy, so accurate, although I would agree with Dr. Mabuse about the fence-sitters. To try and talk sense and logic to YEC types is fruitless, and there would be no point in doing so if your aim was to try and make them see their error. But save for the fact that you may be able to convince others, especially when you know your facts and can easily quote sources for the fence-sitters, I think is well worth confronting YEC types.
Indeed, and I do. Most if not all of my writings here are mainly aimed at the lurkers, of which we have many.
And with a smirk on my face and the lead-cored fish billy sticking out of my hip pocket, I am perfectly willing to go head to head with the religiously insane. I rather enjoy the fray, and it's a pity that we get so little grist for that, particular mill. I have a hopeless fantasy of one day getting Kent (Dr. Dino-idjit) Hovind in here.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2005 : 20:22:41 [Permalink]
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There were actually two fence sitters. Well, not exactly fence sitters. More like people who trusted science, but just didn't understand it.
One actually said in response to a claim by the guy that science is wrong about evolution, "We have computers and cars and such, science got all these other things right, they most likely got evolution right too." or something along those lines. I then brought up the point that he agrees with everything that science says except when it contradicts a literal translation of the Bible, and magically the conversation changed topic.
Oh well, he is beyond reason. This guy believes in the Clinton lists, the drug company conspiracy (they are trying to hurt us, not help us), and the Bush administration. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
| Edited by - Ricky on 06/26/2005 20:23:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 03:27:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Oh well, he is beyond reason. This guy believes in the Clinton lists, the drug company conspiracy (they are trying to hurt us, not help us), and the Bush administration.
That says a lot! 
Like Hovind but opposit, I avoid getting into oral arguments on the ToE. The reason is that I simply don't think fast enough. But I have found that if I just disagree without going into a lengthy explanation, the argument will sometimes come to me in the form of serious qiestions, easily answered.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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