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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
 Posted - 10/09/2001 : 12:07:52
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 10/09/2001 : 13:18:13 [Permalink]
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Kinda interesting, but this sort of thing requires supporting references. This is all just some guy's speculation until those are given.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2001 : 16:19:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Kinda interesting, but this sort of thing requires supporting references. This is all just some guy's speculation until those are given.
Yes, I agree, where are the facts?
You could also say they all ate candy too but would that be evidence that it leads to a certain behavior?
I'm the worlds #1 Misogynist but had an average childhood. I learned to hate women because of all the matriarchal women in my family and from what I observe around me in general. That is, that most women are pushy and mean compared to so many more men who are kind and considerate.
I have no thoughts of hijacking a plane. But the only reason I wouldn't kill a bunch of women is I don't want to go to jail for it.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2001 : 14:57:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Mr. Glazov,
I thoroughly enjoyed your article and cannot reject it outright, however could you please point me to some ‘supporting references'.
Sincerely,
marvin green
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:33:12 –1100
Hi Marvin, maybe you can start here and then go in the direction you would like.
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/bruce.htm
From the horse's mouth.
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2001 : 20:24:01 [Permalink]
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Very interesting theory.
I have always thought that the quest for an eternal paradise at the costs of pleasure and happiness on earth was a poor way to live.
But, if all you know is brutality, rape,and circumcision at 12 without anesthesia, then fantasy is all you've got left.
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 09:54:36 [Permalink]
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I posted this on another board 10/9 after reading the Glazov article.
As an electrician I have worked on a few industrial construction jobs for multinational general contractors. Being a construction worker I've worked with many ‘travelers' workers who travel to where the work is, within the confines of the US. Now the world travelers are called ‘wobblers' workers who travel the world looking for work.
There have been consistent rumors that I've heard a few times about the Greeks, don't know if it's true or not, being second hand and ‘older that the hills'. I will relate one first hand story. Jim is a union electrician from Louisiana who traveled to Saudi Arabia to work. Jim said, ‘when I arrived on the job there were quite a few qualified local electricians on the job, doing very good work, each had a helper, some had two. When break time came I couldn't find anyone so took my break alone. At lunchtime I noticed everyone went in different directions, no common lunch area on the job, so I ate lunch alone. It took a few days for me to finally realize that the local journeymen electricians were having a sexual relationship with their helpers, it was required and considered quite normal for the culture.'
I wouldn't consider Jim a normal stable person, three x-wives and no-telling how many kids, just a working Joe six pack. He claimed to have worked in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, England and a few other places overseas that I cannot recall. He also claimed that he worked on one job when the country was taken over by some opposing group, and instead of herding up all the Americans and shipping them out. The new Army just stood guard so the work could continue, and never bothered him or any of the other foreign workers.
Now Jim might have been telling a tall tale, just to confuse me, but he wasn't actually laughing when he told me the story of his miserable sick insignificant life. lol --- I have wondered if there was any ‘truth' to the helper sex slave story though. I haven't thought about this in a long time, about seventeen-years. |
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 10:28:41 [Permalink]
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I still wonder just how pervasive this abuse is in Saudi Arabia. The History Channel {cable tv} had a series on last night: The History of Sex, or something like that, and they mentioned that the Kinsey report {1948} claimed that 37% of American men had at least one sexual release with another male.
“Child/adult sexual experiences: Roughly one in eight women and one in 16 men have had sexual experiences as children with an adult. People with such experiences tend to exhibit much higher levels of erotic behavior as adults…
Men who have had childhood sexual experiences with an adult as well as those who have had childhood sexual experiences with age mates (other children) are twice as likely to report low levels of overall happiness as adults, nearly twice as likely to be less satisfied with their current sexual partners, and nearly twice as likely to report high sexual dysfunction. The good news is that the vast majority of those with childhood sexual experiences appear to be quite resilient and have survived these experiences with no apparent harmful effects as adults so far as their sexuality and quality of life are concerned, Laumann said. --- Sex, Love, and Health {a book} --- {based on} The National Health and Social Life Survey ~ 1992
University of Chicago News Office”
Environmental vs Genetic causes of personality disorders, that is if suicide terrorists have personality disorders? --- My guess is that Osama has a genetic disorder that attracts men with culturally derived psychoses.
The Islamic doctrine of khilafa, lays at the foundation of Sheik Azzam's (bin Ladin's spiritual mentor) agenda for the spread of Islam on a global level. It does not call for violence or terrorism and has been ‘severely distorted' the reasons are likely a number of factors and IMO the consumption of too much candy is not one of them! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 16:44:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
the Kinsey report {1948} claimed that 37% of American men had at least one sexual release with another male.
I thought that was discredited or was that Masters and Johnson?
quote:
“Child/adult sexual experiences: Roughly one in eight women and one in 16 men have had sexual experiences as children with an adult. People with such experiences tend to exhibit much higher levels of erotic behavior as adults…
Men who have had childhood sexual experiences with an adult as well as those who have had childhood sexual experiences with age mates (other children) are twice as likely to report low levels of overall happiness as adults, nearly twice as likely to be less satisfied with their current sexual partners, and nearly twice as likely to report high sexual dysfunction. The good news is that the vast majority of those with childhood sexual experiences appear to be quite resilient and have survived these experiences with no apparent harmful effects as adults so far as their sexuality and quality of life are concerned, Laumann said. --- Sex, Love, and Health {a book} --- {based on} The National Health and Social Life Survey ~ 1992
In any case, why are people so obsessed with sex?
Geeses Krist, it's just a natural thing, yet everyone has to interpret it, supress it and make excuses for it.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 11:47:56 [Permalink]
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very amusing pseudoscience. it sounds good. i will now hypothesize, based on much observation, that religion makes people crazy. sexual maladjustment is only one symptom.
comrade billyboy |
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 14:36:49 [Permalink]
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Pseudoscience ~ A theory, methodology, or practice that is considered to be without scientific foundation.
Hypothesis ~ A ‘sexual-pathology' of “boy-raper” Islamic culture has a direct correlation to the number of available suicide volunteers at its disposal and its ease of training such volunteers.
The Northern Ireland Protestant-Catholic conflict would seem to nullify most of the theory, except for the suicide part.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2001 : 16:53:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hypothesis ~ A ‘sexual-pathology' of “boy-raper” Islamic culture has a direct correlation to the number of available suicide volunteers at its disposal and its ease of training such volunteers.
Sexual theories aside, I've heard of the rumor that only 6 of the 18 terrorists might have actually known that it was a suicide mission (based on notes left for their families).
This may be an indication that recruiting suicide bombers may not be as easy as we might believe.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2001 : 00:12:49 [Permalink]
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OK, to marvin's original post. The concept of boys having sexual encounters with men in the middle east - this is a product of their culture - and only viewed as abusive through the eyes of western culture where this type of sexual contact is viewed as deviant.
I have heard that boys having sex with men is common practice culturally in the middle east. How much truth there is to this is something with which I am unfamiliar.
So a cultural norm in one society may be viewed as an evil by another society. The judgement ins't ours to make, no matter our perspective on it. If it is normal in that cultured, then it is acceptable there, where it will become unacceptable for someone of that descent is when they move into a culture/society where the practice is not acceptable.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 11:31:07 [Permalink]
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Normative ethical relativism claims that each culture's (or group's) beliefs are right within that culture, and that it is impossible to validly judge another culture's values from the outside.
If I accepted this philosophy I would be hard pressed to come up with a rational critique of the genocidal behavior of the Nazis against the Jews during WWII. According to “cultural normal”, what the Nazis did to the Jews was ethically ok, since it was in keeping with their societal code. But this is hardly an acceptable conclusion for an ethical theory, at least in my opinion. Also the ‘cultural norm' may not be totally accurate, if true why hide it, why keep it secret.
IMO the people don't have enough motivation to overthrow the dictatorial government and the dictatorial government doesn't have enough incentive to overcome the theology. So they both sit in their deviant little worlds ‘feeding' off the weak and ignorant.
Getting back to my original hypothesis, I became interested in attempting to explain why --- if the FBI warnings of a potential 1,000 suicide terrorists residing in America waiting for a go-signal were true. I imagined several hundred terrorists injected with smallpox, hemorrhagic fever and bubonic plague all with C-4 or semtex strapped to their bodies wired to pagers set to the same phone number. Then Osama bin Laden could make a phone call and in hundreds of malls and populated areas across America --- boom --- massive bio terrorism.
Well it hasn't happened and I doubt if it will, so the hypothesis will fade away and most if not all of the terrorist cells in America will be apprehended and prosecuted. --- I wonder how different my life would be if I had inherited 20 million dollars at the age of fourteen… ha I might have three wives, a five million dollar price on my head and skid marks in my shorts too, but I doubt it.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 12:21:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Normative ethical relativism claims that each culture's (or group's) beliefs are right within that culture, and that it is impossible to validly judge another culture's values from the outside.
If I accepted this philosophy I would be hard pressed to come up with a rational critique of the genocidal behavior of the Nazis against the Jews during WWII.
I see this particular topic discussed back and forth alot. It usually follows the same path. Someone says that another peoples actions may not be ok for us, but they are fine for them, then someone else pipes up with the old "Then by your logic Hitler did nothing wrong!".
This, I think, is called bifurcation? (not to mention inflammatory! ) It is not an all or nothing philosophy. Some morals are much more relative than others, to the point that some morals can be called with all practicality "absolute" (though I don't believe absolute morals exist in reality). Cultural sexuality can be relative. Genocide cannot. While I don't dispute that what you are saying is valid, marvin, in the context of this topic, and what Trish said, it does not apply.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 13:22:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
This, I think, is called bifurcation? (not to mention inflammatory! ) It is not an all or nothing philosophy. Some morals are much more relative than others, to the point that some morals can be called with all practicality "absolute" (though I don't believe absolute morals exist in reality). Cultural sexuality can be relative. Genocide cannot.
The ethical metatheory of cultural relativism does not have a hierarchical nature, stating that some norms are more relative than others. AFAIK, there is no ethical theory running around doing that. Seems to be it would be difficult to pull off from any given metaethical starting point. Do you think it can be done from a consequentialist standpoint, perhaps?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2001 : 14:21:18 [Permalink]
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Tokyodreamer,
Ok, you're right it's comparing apples to oranges, however I'm not yet ready to concede that it's relative.
[sarcasm]Perhaps I suffer from pedophilephobia.[/sarcasm]
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